1 1 2 EMRE - ILEU 3 4 Collective Bargaining Agreement Negotiations Friday, June 18, 2021 5 Commencing at 1:00 p.m. 6 HELD REMOTELY VIA ZOOM 7 --- Day 61 --- 8 P R E S E N T: 9 10 EXXONMOBIL RESEARCH AND ENGINEERING COMPANY: 11 JEFFELEE McCLAIN, CLINTON SITE HR MANAGER JOSH BRYANT, CLINTON SITE LABOR ADVISOR 12 YUK LOUIE, R&D OPERATIONS MANAGER 13 INDEPENDENT LABORATORY EMPLOYEES' UNION: 14 STEVEN RAGOMO, PRESIDENT THOMAS FREDRIKSEN, VICE PRESIDENT 15 ETHAN SEBASCO, SECRETARY THOMAS FERRO, TREASURER 16 DAVID LEBRON, ACT DELEGATE MICHAEL MOLINA, PO&T DELEGATE 17 PAUL MADIARA, DELEGATE MICHAEL STRASSER, CSR STEWARD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 2 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Good afternoon. Thank 2 you for meeting with us again. I saw that Josh has 3 sent over a -- he requested that -- he sent over 4 notice that he requested the roster. So thank you 5 for that, Josh. We also had some information 6 requests from last week. There was a request to 7 follow-up on the percentage of outsourced positions 8 that were part of the reduction of the testing data 9 that we saw, that we observed in 2020, as opposed a 10 reduction due to COVID. I know that Yuk had said it 11 was going to be close to zero, but, JeffeLee, I 12 believe you also said you were going to follow-up 13 for sure. 14 And the other thing that we requested, 15 that I am aware of at this time is, we asked if the 16 Company was planning to notify the site about the 17 change to LPO and that it was now required if it was 18 assigned. 19 MS. McCLAIN: Right. So the first one, 20 and Yuk can confirm, but we have not found any -- we 21 thought the question about the reduction in 2020 was 22 the amount of testing that was outsourced; that was 23 the question? 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes. 25 MS. McCLAIN: We have not found any to Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 3 1 report. So, Yuk, do you have confirmation? 2 MS. LOUIE: That is correct. The 3 reduction in 2020 did not result in any outsourcing. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. Thank you for 5 following up. 6 MS. McCLAIN: And the second question 7 around -- I am sorry, could you restate that? 8 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I had asked if the 9 Company was planning to inform the site -- 10 MS. McCLAIN: Oh yes, inform the site. 11 And again, you know we had -- I said at the time we 12 had no plans to do so since, you know, safety is an 13 expectation, you know, of everyone. So we have no 14 plans to do that. 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. I have 16 questions about that, but I want to talk -- I have 17 questions about that, but I want to talk to my team 18 before I ask the questions. 19 MS. McCLAIN: Not a problem. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Just give me a second. 21 Thank you for the responses. I do want 22 to discuss them a little bit. But before we go into 23 caucus, you know, I would like to say that a lot has 24 happened since last week and, you know, we had made 25 some additional arguments on the record last week Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 4 1 about our proposals that were outstanding. A few 2 other things happened, you know, we had the town 3 hall with ViJay, which we are appreciative that he 4 was able to provide himself as a re -- with direct 5 contact to the bargaining unit. So we appreciate 6 that. 7 Another thing that happened is that 8 June 19th is now a federal holiday. 9 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Which is great news. 11 MS. McCLAIN: Isn't that great news? 12 MR. RAGOMO: Yes, it is. Absolutely. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So I am asking if the 14 Company has anything to give us or discuss with at 15 this time. 16 MS. McCLAIN: Not at this time, no. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So the -- basically 18 the proposal stands, your answer is still no. 19 MS. McCLAIN: Correct, but that 20 Company's proposals still stand with the changes to 21 the Auto Mechanics we discussed last week, to the 22 job description and the titling. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes. 24 MS. McCLAIN: And, of course, the offer 25 that, you know, for Juneteenth holiday, there are Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 5 1 many options available to the Union of switching, 2 you know, taking one of the current holidays and 3 switching or taking one of floating holidays and 4 fixing it, you know, there are options to which you 5 guys responded last week. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right. 7 Okay. With that, we will caucus unless 8 you want to discuss anything else before we go into 9 caucus. 10 MS. McCLAIN: No, not right now. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. So let's 12 caucus. 13 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 14 (Remote negotiations recessed at 1:09 15 p.m. and resumed at 2:31 p.m.) 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Thank you for getting 17 back together with us. Our time commitment today is 18 until 4:00 or is it until 3:00? I am sorry. 19 MR. RAGOMO: I thought I had it until 20 4:00. 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is until 4:00. 22 MS. McCLAIN: It is until 4:00. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We have a -- we were 24 working hard to prepare a counterproposal for you -- 25 MS. McCLAIN: We lost someone. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 6 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Tom Ferro. 2 We have a counterproposal for you that 3 we worked on. I am just struggling on the server to 4 get it attached to an e-mail. Everything is going 5 slow. 6 MS. McCLAIN: Understood. We have all 7 been there unfortunately. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I don't want to take 10 up too much of your time. We talked a lot about the 11 changing circumstances that the Company is hopefully 12 facing, and the Company has made it clear that their 13 position is that even though the first quarter was 14 really hopeful and really well and profitable and 15 the Company was able to pay off $4 billion of its 16 debt, there is still debt to be paid off and, you 17 know, basically the past performance is no guarantee 18 of future growth. That is the Company's position 19 that they have made to us. 20 On the other hand, you know, on April 21 30, the Company gave a presentation to investors 22 that was, I think pretty hopeful of the future. You 23 know, it is stipulated on their plan, which the best 24 laid plans of mice and men, et cetera. But they are 25 projecting to investors that they have a plan and Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 7 1 that they are on a plan to success. Darren Woods 2 said that they are positioning themselves for 3 success, said that they are going to leverage 4 technology as one of the things that is going to 5 help, you know, guarantee the Company's success. 6 Now, we have made it consistently clear 7 that we believe the Company can turn this around. 8 We think that we -- and we want to be part of that 9 as well. Our wage proposals have tried to reflect 10 that, you know, we gave you cost savings. And in 11 the short term, pushed them to the end of the 12 contract to try to help defer some of those costs to 13 when we believe the Company will be doing better. 14 So with that respect, I say go even 15 further to show our commitment to that idea. We 16 have a change -- a modified counterproposal. 17 MS. McCLAIN: All right. 18 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Which, in great part, 19 was helpful to create, thanks to the sessions we had 20 yesterday with ViJay, where I was under the 21 impression that he believes that this organization 22 is going to save the Company. 23 Let me know when you guys get that, and 24 I will share my screen. 25 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 8 1 MR. RAGOMO: I see it. 2 MR. FREDRIKSEN: This is a Union 3 counterproposal dated June 18, which is today, 4 right, June 18, 2021. We have taken a look at, you 5 know, what you have told us about Automotive 6 Technician. We don't think that the wages are fair 7 for the Automotive group in particular, but, you 8 know, it is the Company's choice to use wages in 9 that manner to attract the kind of talent that they 10 want. 11 So to that note, we have accepted the 12 Company's change of the job titles and, you know, 13 the obviously implicit there is the structure of 14 Technician, Automotive Technician and Senior 15 Automotive Technician. And we accept the modified 16 job descriptions that you provided with the 17 diminished years of -- required years of service for 18 -- or required years of experience for the 19 Technician position. You know, we made a change 20 here at the -- in the annotated section that just 21 kind of points you to the proposal there. 22 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Everything clear up to 24 this point? 25 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 9 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. On C2, we made 2 some changes to the first paragraph. The Company 3 has, you know, gone, in my opinion, back and forth 4 on what its intentions are with contracting. But, 5 you know, you said last time that you think it is 6 implicit that contracting is not going to be used to 7 harm the Union, erode it, anything like that. 8 So, in good faith, we took the sentence 9 that was there back out, and we also changed some of 10 the language a little bit to get closer to the 11 Company's language. You would have to compare the 12 two side by side to really see the difference, but 13 you can probably tell that there is less yellow 14 and/or black, right, it is just more of the 15 Company's language. 16 So now it reads: "For the duration of 17 this agreement, the Company may, without objection 18 from the Union, contract out the following job 19 families. And the job families are listed here. 20 There are no other changes to C2. We 21 have still not seen any compelling reason why the 22 Company needs the outsourcing language in 23 particular. 24 So moving forward, there is no change 25 to the Savings Plan proposal and no change to Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 10 1 Educational Refund. We made a big change to the 2 Wage proposal. 3 So, like I said, the Union has faith in 4 the Company, we want to tie ourselves to the 5 Company's growth. And to that effect, we have -- at 6 the top of the proposal, starting from the top, we 7 have an agreement to the Company's offered wages as 8 of, you know, before the Company declared impasse 9 and then changed the wage proposal to remove 10 retroactivity. So this is an agreement to a 11 proposal the Company previously made. 12 So, in our opinion, these are wages the 13 Company had already been prepared to pay us. 14 Moving forward, we had a proposal for 15 7.54 percent in the last year. The Company didn't 16 like that. So now we have a wage reopener proposal. 17 And I will read the entire thing: 18 "Parties agree that 60 days prior to 19 June 1, 2022" -- I have to send that correction to 20 you -- 21 MS. McCLAIN: Oh, okay. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: -- "of collective 23 agreement, wage rate negotiations for the remaining 24 two years of the collective agreement shall 25 commence. These negotiations shall be limited to Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 11 1 wages only and/or other matters agreed between the 2 parties. In the event the parties are unable to 3 satisfactorily conclude such negotiations within 60 4 days, there shall be no strike or lockout, and if 5 the parties unable to agree on what, if any, changes 6 occur, the parties shall resolve the dispute through 7 binding interest arbitration. The parties will 8 agree to the appointment of interest arbitrator 9 within 14 days through the process already 10 established in Article VIII." 11 And we have also kept in our proposal 12 to add Juneteenth to the Collective Bargaining 13 Agreement as a set holiday. 14 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So let me fix the 16 "2022" from 2023 change, because it is supposed to 17 be the last two years. So that slipped by. 18 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right? That is the 20 last two years? Did I do that right? Because it 21 ends in 2024, June 1, 2024. That years starts in 22 2023, so that is one year. Yeah, 2022. 23 MS. McCLAIN: Right. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You guys get it. 25 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. So it would be -- Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 12 1 we are agreeing this year. And then next year we 2 would meet again in March -- no, in April. 60 days. 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right. 4 MS. McCLAIN: So April 1, around there 5 we would meet again, and then we would have the wage 6 reopener and anything else that we would mutually 7 agree to. And then if we can't come to an agreement 8 within 60 days, by June 1 -- 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Well, it is not by 10 June 1 because I would say it is within 60 days of 11 us, you know, starting to meet, so... 12 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Maybe I can -- if that 14 is not clear, within 60 days of commencement. 15 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Clearer? 17 MS. McCLAIN: I guess -- wouldn't it 18 match, because your first sentence says, "The 19 parties agree that 60 days prior to June 1 we will 20 begin the negotiations," right? 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You are right. I 22 guess it is simpler. You are right. 23 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Right. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is clear and 25 simple, so leave it that way. Not overcomplicate Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 13 1 it. 2 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Just so I 3 understand -- where was I? April 1, we start with a 4 reopener, April 1, 2022. A reopener on wages and 5 anything else. And then if we don't agree with -- 6 by June 1, we would go to arbitration and then we 7 would have -- what is the 14 days? 8 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is the selection 9 process. When was the last time you looked at 10 Article VIII? 11 MS. McCLAIN: Yeah. Okay. I just 12 wanted -- 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is a selection 14 process. 15 MS. McCLAIN: Yeah, I just wanted to 16 make sure it was that 14. So 14 days from June 1, 17 2022, if we can't get to an agreement, we would have 18 to select the arbitrator, and then we would begin 19 arbitration. And what happens, though, on -- 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: An arbitration. So if 21 an impartial -- if we make our case to an impartial 22 third-party and they believe that the case is fair, 23 the arbitrator, you know, makes an arbitration 24 decision. It is binding. 25 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Wait. But I mean, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 14 1 we are agreeing to like 2 percent now. 2 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right. 3 MS. McCLAIN: If we -- if the contract 4 is ratified, right, it would be 2 percent on June 1, 5 right, 2022. And so what -- 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: If the Company is 7 doing a lot worse at that time -- this is a wage 8 reopener, right? 9 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So the Company is 11 going to make their own arguments to the arbitrator. 12 If the Company thinks that 2 percent is too much for 13 Year 3, the Company can make that decision. 14 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. So then we don't 15 -- maybe, maybe I am not being clear. I understand 16 the arbitration. I am kind of catching onto what 17 you are saying in the arbitration process, that, you 18 know, you want the third-party to decide, but does 19 the Company implement the 2 percent on June 1, 2022 20 or do we not, you know, do that and you wait for the 21 arbitrator to decide? 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: My understanding is 23 the way this works is that the suggested rate wage 24 increases are a target, they are like a suggestion. 25 So the 2 percent wouldn't apply until the end of the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 15 1 process. And so, like, whatever the wage increase 2 is supposed to be for that year would have to wait 3 until after the end of the process is completed. 4 Should that time comes, right, the 5 Company is doing a lot better, and we think we 6 should have higher wages, maybe the Company agrees, 7 right, so it is like we agree to have 4 percent in 8 Year 3 and 4, but arbitration might take a little 9 while. Maybe it takes three months. It would be at 10 the end of that time period, once the arbitration 11 award is submitted, it becomes binding at that time 12 for the last two years. So then it would be, you 13 know, provided for those years. And I think it is 14 pretty implicit that it would be retroactive to June 15 1, as to the year. We are trying for talk about 16 that year, right? 17 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. I am following 18 your logic, I think. Okay. All right. 19 MS. McCLAIN: I am going to have more 20 questions, of course, but I just wanted to make sure 21 I was following. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: This is the first time 23 -- I totally understand. This is the first time you 24 guys have ever seen a wage reopener for from us like 25 this, it is my understanding, in the entire history Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 16 1 of the negotiations, but I think that this is a 2 really good -- 3 MS. McCLAIN: We have had -- 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You have had wage 5 reopeners. 6 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: But not interest 8 arbitration. 9 MS. McCLAIN: Correct. Correct. So 10 that is why I want to understand that. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes. 12 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We are tying ourselves 14 to the Company's performance in a lot of ways, I 15 think. We are -- you know, we are -- I believe that 16 things can get better for us. And, you know, I 17 think that if things are worse, then things are 18 worse, and that is something that we can hash out in 19 the interest arbitration. But if things are better, 20 then 2 percent and 2.5 percent can be increased to 21 the targets that we thought were fair. Right? 22 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is an arbitration 24 process. 25 MS. McCLAIN: Right. It would be for Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 17 1 the third-party to decide? 2 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Correct. And it is -- 3 exactly. Yep. 4 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. I am just looking 5 at this version -- I have the other version open on 6 my other screen, so I am just looking right now. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I can even put -- you 8 know what, I can even put little asterisks here. 9 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: To show that -- is 11 that more helpful? I don't know if that really 12 helps anything. 13 MS. McCLAIN: Not quite. I mean, I 14 understand what you are doing, to say that these are 15 targets. Okay. So we are agreeing to a target now, 16 but in the future, you know, in 2022, we would be, 17 you know, doing the reopener, and then we would go 18 to arbitration. 19 So basically then, it is a one-year 20 contract that you are offering? 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: No, the contract is 22 not up in 2022. The contract is continuing. There 23 is no working without a contract after that point. 24 It is the wage increases that are being -- it is 25 limited to wages. The contract does not expire in Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 18 1 2022. 2 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 3 MR. RAGOMO: No. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: No. 5 MS. McCLAIN: So just the wages would? 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right. 7 MS. McCLAIN: And we would -- okay. I 8 understand. I understand what you are -- 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: If there is anything 10 that I can do to help -- 11 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: If you go back to your 13 team and you guys have a disagreement on what I am 14 trying to say and you need help or you need me to 15 change some language -- 16 MS. McCLAIN: We will, of course, 17 contact you. 18 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I am willing to work 19 with that to the best of my -- I think you 20 understand the intent here. 21 MS. McCLAIN: I think I understand the 22 intent. All right. I appreciate you guys taking 23 this back and giving us something to think about, 24 definitely something to think about, because like 25 you said, we have never seen a proposal like this Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 19 1 one before, so lots for us to discuss as a team. 2 All right, let me ask for a caucus 3 right now. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. I am going to 5 send the fixed one. 6 MS. McCLAIN: If you could, that would 7 be good. 8 All right. Thank you. 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Let me know when you 10 are ready. 11 MS. McCLAIN: Will do. 12 (Remote negotiations recessed at 2:51 13 p.m. and resumed at 3:47 p.m.) 14 MS. McCLAIN: I really appreciate you 15 guys coming back together. We were working hard on 16 our side to really understand and consider the 17 proposal that you gave us today. On Auto Mechanics, 18 I think we are at agreement on that with no further 19 changes. 20 On C2, you know, I recognize, what the 21 Union has done here. You have removed the erosion 22 language. You have listened to us. You have come 23 closer to the language in the first paragraph here 24 to what the Company has. However, the language 25 around, notwithstanding around off-site contracting, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 20 1 as well as the arbitration language, you know, you 2 crossed out that second paragraph and the arbitrator 3 language, we are still far apart on the Company's 4 proposal and the Union's proposal. I just want to 5 make it clear, and I appreciate, again, that the 6 Union has recognized that we have experienced, you 7 know, unprecedented business challenges since 8 bargaining began. 9 And, you know, we've revised our 10 proposal from the time we started until now and when 11 -- by including off-site contracting, you know, we 12 just want to make it clear that, as we stated last 13 time, the Company has no plans to contract, you 14 know, work off-site and lay employees off. 15 What we are looking for is to be 16 flexible and be prepared for all contingencies. 17 And, you know, this type of, you know, contracting 18 and this type of flexibility for the Company, you 19 know, is available at other locations and it hasn't 20 been taken advantage of there. You know, they 21 haven't laid off -- contracted out work and laid off 22 employees. And so, you know, what we are looking to 23 do is really, as we consider where to invest and 24 focus and, you know, we want Clinton to be 25 competitive in any economic environment and really Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 21 1 be able to respond to any challenging business 2 changes in the future. 3 And, you know, if we ever come to a 4 point where contracting any work off-site would 5 result in a layoff, we would, of course, work with 6 you to protect employees as much as possible. And 7 you know, we are not proposing any changes to, you 8 know, any other provisions of the CBA where those 9 exist, you know, like layoff provisions or bumping 10 rights or anything else. And so I know that there 11 is a lot of confusion and a lot of concern, but, you 12 know, this is the intent that the Company has for 13 that, you know, for our proposal. 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Can I respond to some 15 of that? 16 MS. McCLAIN: Sure. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So, JeffeLee, you have 18 repeated yourself many times that the Company 19 doesn't have plans to X, Y or Z at this time. It is 20 all well and good that you don't have plans at this 21 time. Plans change and people change. Not only do 22 plans change, but your position could also be a 23 different person ten years down the line. 24 So you telling me that your intention 25 is not to do something and that your plan is not to Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 22 1 do something has no bearing on what goes in a 2 contract, which is what legally allows you to do 3 something. So you just said that you would work 4 with the Union if there was a plan to off-site 5 something, that is what you did with Graphics 6 Design. There were a lot of things going on. You 7 know, you guys said you were going to reuse the 8 space for other work, so technicians weren't -- like 9 represented employees weren't going to lose 10 opportunities there. 11 But, like, your language says "without 12 limitation." It doesn't say, "We will work with the 13 Union moving forward." It just says you can do it. 14 So if the next person who replaces you doesn't want 15 -- doesn't share the same sentiment as you and 16 doesn't want to work with the Union on these things 17 and we had agreed to this language, the Company may 18 very well take the position that they don't have to, 19 and so that is not acceptable. 20 MS. McCLAIN: I don't necessarily agree 21 with that. We would, of course, be required to come 22 to the Union and discuss, you know, the effects of 23 if there was a change to the work being done at 24 Clinton and moving work off-site. We would, of 25 course, have to come and let you know and discuss Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 23 1 effects and protect employees where we can. That is 2 -- that is not changing because of this language. 3 MR. RAGOMO: But, JeffeLee, if you are 4 saying you are going to protect employees, when is 5 the last time that you hired someone within the 6 trades? You have outsourced all of those jobs. And 7 what is the definition of "insanity"? So I am going 8 to say: I don't understand your point. You don't 9 understand our point, so why not a mediator? 10 Because we are now -- and I think ViJay 11 made it perfectly clear when he kept saying, "How 12 many times have we been at the table? How long have 13 we been doing this, and this and that and the other? 14 At what point in time do we say this is in sanity?" 15 Let's bring in a mediator and see if we can't come 16 to an understanding. And for the Company to sit 17 there and say, "We believe going back to the table 18 and getting this done works." Well, obviously it 19 doesn't work. And if you did not get a resounding 20 message from membership, I don't know what more it 21 would take. 22 MS. McCLAIN: And again -- you know, as 23 ViJay said yesterday, right, and that we have said, 24 our preference is to work the issues between the 25 parties to get to an agreement together, and so that Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 24 1 is -- and at the table and that is our preference to 2 do that. 3 MR. RAGOMO: I prefer champagne. I 4 don't drink it all the time. So, come on. I change 5 it up. I drink something different. You not coming 6 to the table, not wanting to bring in a mediator 7 when we can't come to an understanding, when you 8 even said it, "We are very far apart." Well, how do 9 you come to an understanding and being so far apart 10 without having potentially a third person help you 11 get there? 12 MS. McCLAIN: I think, you know, 13 again -- 14 MR. RAGOMO: What do you think -- 15 MS. McCLAIN: -- you have our answer. 16 MR. RAGOMO: And what do you think it 17 is going to take for me to understand? 18 MS. McCLAIN: Where I disagree with 19 you, Steve, is, you know, you have your position of 20 how you see this language and what you think is 21 acceptable to the Union and not necessary -- at 22 least, and I understand that. However, we have a 23 difference of interest. We have a difference of 24 opinion on it. Not that I don't understand what you 25 are asking. It is not that I don't understand what Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 25 1 the Union is telling me that they disagree with. It 2 is simply that I disagree and I have a different 3 position about what the Company's interests are. 4 So, you know, that is where we disagree 5 on, you know, a level of understanding. I 6 understand when you tell me that you find, you know, 7 certain language repugnant. I understand what you 8 mean by that. However, there is, you know, our 9 language about working off-site, our language about 10 an arbitrator is a very important issue to the 11 Company that we settle these issues at the table, 12 that this is a go-forward agreement, and that we 13 have an all-encompassing, you know, side agreement 14 and Article XVIII that dictates how we contract out. 15 So I disagree with you that there is a 16 misunderstanding here. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I think I can help. 18 MS. McCLAIN: What I feel is that there 19 is, you know, a disagreement on it. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I think I can help. I 21 can point out how you don't understand. 22 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You keep telling me 24 that it is about the Company's plans, about the 25 Company's intent, we don't intend to do X, Y and Z. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 26 1 You don't plan to do X, Y and Z, and you are using 2 that as justification for your contract proposals. 3 When your contract proposal says that the Company's 4 plan and the Company's intent has nothing to do with 5 the rest of the proposal, because any arbitrator 6 ruling on these matters shall be limited to what is 7 written on the paper in black and white. 8 So your plans are as of now and your 9 ideas of what you want to do moving forward, those 10 things are either in your head, JeffeLee, or they 11 are on a PowerPoint presentation or they are in some 12 gray book somewhere. They have nothing to do with 13 this proposal because the Company's language is that 14 we can't even look at that stuff. So I don't want 15 to hear that your plan is something anymore. 16 This is what I mean by "you don't 17 understand." When I tell you that your plan is 18 irrelevant to this proposal, it is irrelevant to the 19 proposal. It has -- it has to be -- the proposal 20 has to say what you are allowed to do. That is what 21 the proposal is intended to do. So if you don't 22 understand that that is what is the proposal has to 23 say, you will keep telling me about your plan; but 24 if you do, you won't bring up your plan anymore. 25 You are going to tell me that the Company wants to Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 27 1 reserve the right to fire people and off source 2 things. That is what you are going to tell me that 3 this allows you to do and that is what you want it 4 to do. 5 MS. McCLAIN: And the flexibility, I 6 think the language there says, right, that we, the 7 Company, has the right, without limitation, right, 8 to have any work of a type customarily performed by 9 a bargaining unit performed off-site. I think we 10 were pretty clear about what -- 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes, it is very clear 12 what that language -- 13 MS. McCLAIN: -- it means that we have 14 the right to do. What I am talking about is we have 15 no intent to do that at this time, we have no plans 16 to do that, but it is important for us to have that 17 right in order to remain competitive and flexible 18 and adjust to changing business conditions in the 19 future. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I have asked you this 21 before and Mike has asked you this. Is Clinton a 22 profit center? 23 MS. McCLAIN: No. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Who are we competing 25 with? And on what metric is ExxonMobil Research and Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 28 1 Engineer at Clinton competing? 2 MS. McCLAIN: And what does that have 3 to do with this? 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You are making a 5 claim. You are saying we have to remain 6 competitive. 7 MR. RAGOMO: You just said we need to 8 stay competitive. 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: This is not a profit 10 center. We don't compete with anybody. It is a 11 research center. 12 MS. McCLAIN: The Corporation is a 13 profit center. The Corporation -- 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We are not bargaining 15 for the Corporation. We are -- 16 MS. McCLAIN: We work. 17 MR. RAGOMO: We are bargaining for 18 Clinton. 19 MS. McCLAIN: And at Clinton we are a 20 part of a whole or part of a corporation that we 21 have to do our part to, you know, make sure that our 22 -- we are cost effective, we are flexible, we are 23 nimble, we are available for investment from the 24 Corporation that makes sense. And so that is what 25 this is about. That is what I mean when I say that Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 29 1 we need to remain competitive. Competitive with our 2 market, you know, to ensure that we continue to be a 3 place that the Corporation wants to invest their 4 money in and get a return out of. It may not be a 5 P&L, but we are here as people to deliver results, 6 to deliver research and technology to the 7 Corporation, so we all have to do on our part. 8 Right? We talked about cost savings. 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: There is no market. 10 There is no market in innovation. There is no 11 market in thoughts and ideas. 12 MS. McCLAIN: When I say "competitive 13 with the market," this is what we were talking 14 about, wages, right, about benchmark. I am talking 15 about us as a whole being competitive as an -- as an 16 organization in our rates, in our ability to hire, 17 in our ability to, you know, attract people. That 18 is what I mean by "competitive" in the broad sense. 19 MR. RAGOMO: And what about retaining 20 those people? Does the mental health of your 21 employees not matter? Did you not hear the stress 22 level? Did you not take away things? The 23 flexibility that we were able to do for the 24 Corporation was that -- do the numerous examples 25 that you were giving yesterday, were you in the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 30 1 room? Because I don't know, I heard things that the 2 flexibility that you so dire need is already there. 3 We already perform the flexibility that is 4 necessary. This Company is just full of it. 5 MS. McCLAIN: So, again, you know, 6 there are -- 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So the other thing is, 8 JeffeLee -- one more thing. 9 MS. McCLAIN: Sure. 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The Company declared 11 impasse on October 1, 2020. You added this language 12 to the proposal and you haven't demonstrated a 13 single reason why something has changed since 14 October 1 that made you require this. Not a single 15 one. 16 MS. McCLAIN: And, again, it is our 17 forward looking -- when we look at what has happened 18 -- 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I think you are using 20 this language to punish us. 21 MR. RAGOMO: Yep, for sure. 22 MS. McCLAIN: This is definitely not 23 language to punish you. 24 MR. RAGOMO: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. 25 MS. McCLAIN: This is language that, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 31 1 you know, again, that we believe is -- and is 2 interested in, in order to remain flexible. I know 3 -- this is -- 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: When did you create 5 that belief into your head? When did you have this 6 belief? 7 MS. McCLAIN: And again, when we put 8 this on the table, you know, it was after 9 consideration and, you know, this is -- this is -- 10 when we look at the year that we have had and the 11 importance of being flexible and nimble, you know, 12 this is -- as ViJay said, right -- this is something 13 that, you know, we are really interested in 14 maintaining the ability to determine how and where 15 work gets done. And so that is always what we have 16 said, that we want flexibility, and clarity with C2, 17 and we saw that this was an area that we needed to 18 make sure our -- was reflected in the contract. 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You have had proposals 20 you could have made, but you declared impasse 21 anyway. 22 MR. RAGOMO: Yeah. 23 MR. FERRO: Because they had always 24 thought this, right? 25 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Nothing changed after Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 32 1 that happened. 2 MS. McCLAIN: In any case, right, this 3 is -- you know, C2 is important to us. I wanted to 4 make sure that we understood and that we reflected 5 that. 6 Oh, I am sorry, I didn't even recognize 7 that we went over time. I don't know if you guys 8 need to discuss that, if you need to -- 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Nope, unless you have 10 a counterproposal to give to us, there is nothing to 11 discuss at this time. 12 MS. McCLAIN: No, we don't have a 13 counterproposal to give to you at this time. 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: What is your response 15 to our wage proposal? 16 MS. McCLAIN: So on wage proposal, and 17 I will actually cover Juneteenth. Just to let you 18 know, I did double-check with our group, our policy 19 group, and for the rest of the corporation, you 20 know, they are not changing the ten holidays at this 21 time and so the floating holidays are being used 22 with the rest of the Corporation. I wanted to share 23 that with you guys. So it is not like our 24 discussions are putting our employees at a 25 disadvantage. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 33 1 I did confirm that it was our standard 2 processes for benefits -- you know, they will, of 3 course, continue to evaluate our approach and market 4 response. And so this is top of mind for the rest 5 of the Corporation as well. So I just wanted to 6 relay that information to you. 7 MR. FERRO: Can I ask a follow-up to 8 that? 9 MS. McCLAIN: Certainly. 10 MR. FERRO: At what level of management 11 was that decision made? 12 MS. McCLAIN: I don't know. I can go 13 back and double-check that. 14 MR. FERRO: Thank you. 15 MS. McCLAIN: But for us, I just wanted 16 to reiterate, you know, that -- I looked into -- we 17 looked into it just to make sure that, you know, we 18 weren't -- I didn't offer something that was out of 19 sync, you know, or lesser than what the Corporation 20 had decided to do. And so, you know, I still 21 maintain and offer, you know, that we can adjust any 22 holidays or utilize the three floating holidays, and 23 we already have -- 24 MR. RAGOMO: No. 25 MS. McCLAIN: -- you know, for Clinton, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 34 1 three floating holidays, where the rest of the 2 Corporation only has two. 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The Company wants to 4 remain nimble, you want to adapt to industry trends, 5 you want to be an industry leader on all sorts of 6 things, as long as they involve cutting costs, 7 diverting investments from its people, divesting 8 investments from locations. That is the only that I 9 hear Exxon wants to be a leader on is cost cutting. 10 MR. RAGOMO: That is it. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Nothing else. 12 MS. McCLAIN: Again, you know, I was 13 hoping that that would give you some information. 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is formative. 15 MR. RAGOMO: It is very formative. 16 MS. McCLAIN: Again, that our offer 17 here in Clinton, you know, to even go to -- you 18 know, to take one of the existing holidays and move 19 that or take a floating holiday and move that is 20 still on the table. 21 MR. MOLINA: I just want to go on 22 record as an employee of ExxonMobil, I am telling 23 you that I am extremely, extremely disappointed. I 24 represent that community just as much as you do, and 25 I think it is appalling and disgusting and I just Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 35 1 want to go on record and say it is not appreciated 2 and it is a shame that this is even a discussion. 3 It should just be automatically approved and it 4 should be recognized because it has been way too 5 long that the community has been disrespected, 6 misrepresented, and not treated fairly. But that is 7 okay, I just wanted to go on record as an employee 8 of ExxonMobil, I am extremely disgusted and 9 disappointed. 10 MS. McCLAIN: And, you know, I can't 11 say that I might not share a personal -- you know, 12 be personally aligned with where you are. I 13 believe, like I told you guys, right, I always take 14 off Juneteenth and celebrate myself, but that is 15 also what, to be honest, our floating holidays from 16 the Company provide, as well as vacation, that we 17 can choose which ethnic holidays and cultural 18 holidays and historical holidays that we want to 19 represent and take off. So I totally understand 20 where you are coming from. Register your concern. 21 But that is why we have the floating holidays. 22 MR. RAGOMO: But just think about what 23 a leader in, not only the industry, but in the 24 country, ExxonMobil could be. Think about the 25 impact that it would have in terms of what it would Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 36 1 represent. You always love to talk the game of 2 inclusion and diversity. How better a way to truly 3 include all Americans. Is it really that this 4 company is this foolish not to recognize what a 5 historical date this is for this country? It amazes 6 me. 7 I agree with Michael Molina, I find it 8 appalling that the Federal Government has declared 9 it as a federal holiday and this company is, again, 10 just going to follow, fall in line. Other companies 11 have already stepped forward to say paid time off 12 for their employees for this day. And our powers to 13 be are this naive to say that it should be 14 recognized. What a disgusting company. 15 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. All right. And so 16 for -- again, I understand the perspective and I 17 hear what you guys are saying. Again, we could -- 18 the offer still stands if we want to have Juneteenth 19 as a recognized holiday in our contract, we can. 20 The boundaries are just -- 21 MR. RAGOMO: Then make it 11 days. 22 MS. McCLAIN: -- are just moving, you 23 know. 24 MR. RAGOMO: No, make it 11 days. 25 MS. McCLAIN: -- to that. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 37 1 MR. RAGOMO: 11 days and add 2 Juneteenth. 3 MS. McCLAIN: Again, we can add 4 Juneteenth by moving one of the floating holidays or 5 one of the other ten holidays. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Which one do you 7 recommend we change? 8 MS. McCLAIN: Me personally, I would 9 give up the day after Thanksgiving, but that is me. 10 So, you know, it is something to decide but, you 11 know, we already get Thanksgiving. You can take the 12 day after and move it, but that is -- again, that is 13 me. But other people, it might not. But that is 14 for the Union -- you know, for you guys to decide as 15 a group if that is something that you want to do. 16 But anyway. 17 Okay. Because we did decide for this 18 contract, right, about the day after Christmas and 19 that that was -- the rest of the Corporation gets 20 the day after Christmas and only two floating. Here 21 at Clinton we do not get the day after Christmas, 22 but we get three holidays, so, you know, floating 23 holidays. 24 MR. RAGOMO: So we have to give up 25 something that we have already bargained for? Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 38 1 MS. McCLAIN: Is something to consider. 2 MR. RAGOMO: No. 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You are always behind. 4 Exxon is always behind when it comes to investing in 5 is people and investing in inclusion, always behind. 6 You are one of the last people to adopt the paid 7 parental time off and you still fucked that up 8 because you didn't offer it everybody. 9 MR. RAGOMO: As I said yesterday, 10 ExxonMobil, you are just followers. You don't lead. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: What about the wage 12 reopener? 13 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. So, again, this 14 one we -- we talked through and, you know, I really 15 thank you guys for coming closer to us on the 16 numbers. You know, the Company has no problem with 17 a wage reopener, we have talked about that. We have 18 had them in the past, in one or two of our contracts 19 in the past. But we have no interest in having an 20 arbitrator decide what employee wages will be. 21 We know that interest bargaining -- or 22 sorry, interest arbitration on wages occurs, you 23 know, like in the public sector. That is probably, 24 you know, the experience, Steve, you have had in the 25 past, maybe. I know it is popular with my family Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 39 1 who has -- who are teachers and police officers in 2 some public sectors. 3 But, you know, here for us, as a 4 business, we want to make sure that, you know, we 5 remain competitive and that, you know, we believe 6 that wages are best settled at the table, and not 7 have a third-party determine, you know, what our 8 business will be. So, you know, we can have a wage 9 reopener -- 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You don't even want a 11 second party to determine what our wages are going 12 to be. You just want to do it yourself. 13 MS. McCLAIN: Disagree. But you know, 14 an arbitrator -- 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Here is an information 16 request. I have an information request. 17 MS. McCLAIN: Sure. Give me all 18 examples of wage reopeners in the past ten years 19 that have resulted in higher-than-proposed wages. 20 MS. McCLAIN: For? 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The Union. 22 MS. McCLAIN: For the ILEU, okay. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: No. For every 24 represented bargaining unit in the Corporation. 25 Give every example of any time when a wage reopener Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 40 1 wasn't just, "Thanks for the information, but we are 2 just going to do what we want." I want to see it. 3 MR. FERRO: It is qualifying data to 4 the argument. 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Not only that, but the 6 Company is making all these claims about its 7 contracting language and how standard it is and how 8 normal it is. You also need to provide us with all 9 of the contracting language from every ExxonMobil 10 union. Not only that, but if the contract is silent 11 on contracting language, I need to know that. 12 MR. RAGOMO: Yes. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So back up that claim. 14 Not only were you making that claim, but Craig 15 Stanley made the claim. Craig Stanley said, "Less 16 than ten percent of all ExxonMobil contracts have 17 restrictions on them regarding the length of time a 18 contractor can be on-site or its dollar amount." So 19 you need to qualify those statements. 20 MS. McCLAIN: Any other info requests? 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Not at this time. 22 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Anything else from 23 the team? 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: No. 25 MS. LOUIE: Happy Father's Day Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 41 1 everybody. 2 MR. RAGOMO: Thank you. 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Actually, I do have 4 one more thing. We had a date of June 24. We are 5 not able to attend that date. Does the Company have 6 a backup date or an alternative date for that day? 7 MS. McCLAIN: Unfortunately, we 8 couldn't find one. We are meeting on the 21st 9 and -- 10 MR. BRYANT: 22nd. 11 MS. McCLAIN: I am sorry. On the 22nd. 12 I am looking at it right now. Unfortunately, we 13 weren't able to find another day that week. We are 14 meeting currently from 9:30, right, to 4:30. 15 MR. BRYANT: No, 10:00 to 4:00. 16 MS. McCLAIN: I am sorry, 10:00 to 17 4:00. 18 MR. RAGOMO: That was the 22nd? 19 MR. BRYANT: Correct. 20 MS. McCLAIN: That is the 22. 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Have you closed the 22 opportunity for the 24th, rescheduled it with 23 something else, or is that still available? 24 MS. McCLAIN: I have -- I can -- I will 25 have to take that off. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 42 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I don't know that we 2 can meet. I am just asking. I don't know that we 3 can meet on that day. 4 MS. McCLAIN: Oh, okay. 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I will talk with our 6 team and see if we can move things around. It is 7 very important that we meet as often as possible 8 before this deadline where the Company is holding a 9 gun to everybody's head. 10 By the way, when are you going to pull 11 trigger? Is it at midnight on the 30th or at what 12 time? 13 MS. McCLAIN: You know, it wouldn't be 14 midnight on the 30th. It would be the 1st. 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Duly noted. I don't 16 have anything else. 17 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Then I think we 18 can adjourn. 19 MR. RAGOMO: Thank you. 20 MS. McCLAIN: Thank you. 21 (Remote negotiations adjourned at 22 4:19 p.m.) 23 24 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 43 1 2 CERTIFICATE 3 4 I, RITA GARDNER, Notary Public of the 5 State of New Jersey and a Certified Court Reporter, 6 do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and 7 accurate transcript of the remote testimony as taken 8 stenographically by and before me at the time and on 9 the date hereinbefore set forth. 10 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a 11 relative nor employee nor attorney nor counsel of any 12 of the parties to this action, and that I am neither 13 a relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, 14 and that I am not financially interested in the 15 action. 16 17 18 Notary Public of the State of New Jersey 19 20 Dated: June 20, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195