1 1 2 EMRE - ILEU 3 4 Collective Bargaining Agreement Negotiations 5 Thursday, March 11, 2021 Commencing at 9:00 a.m. 6 7 HELD REMOTELY VIA ZOOM 8 --- Day 51 --- 9 P R E S E N T: 10 EXXONMOBIL RESEARCH AND ENGINEERING COMPANY: 11 JEFFELEE McCLAIN, CLINTON SITE HR MANAGER 12 JOSH BRYANT, CLINTON SITE LABOR ADVISOR YUK LOUIE, R&D OPERATIONS MANAGER 13 INDEPENDENT LABORATORY EMPLOYEES' UNION: 14 STEVEN RAGOMO, PRESIDENT 15 THOMAS FREDRIKSEN, VICE PRESIDENT ETHAN SEBASCO, SECRETARY 16 THOMAS FERRO, TREASURER DAVID LEBRON, ACT DELEGATE 17 MICHAEL MOLINA, PO&T DELEGATE PAUL MADIARA, DELEGATE 18 MICHAEL STRASSER, CSR STEWARD 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 2 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Good morning. 2 MS. McCLAIN: Good morning. 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Thank you for agreeing 4 to meet with us again. We have some new people here 5 in terms of the transcripts. So I think we should 6 go around and quickly introduce ourselves, just say 7 our names so that Rita knows the sound of your voice 8 in case, for any reason, you feel you need to 9 comment. 10 I am Thomas Fredriksen, vice president. 11 MR. RAGOMO: I am Steve Ragomo, 12 president, ILEU. 13 MR. LEBRON: David Lebron, delegate for 14 ACT. 15 MR. SEBASCO: Ethan Sebasco, ILEU 16 secretary. 17 MR. MOLINA: Michael Molina, delegate 18 of PO&T. 19 MR. FERRO: Tom Ferro, ILEU treasurer. 20 MR. STRASSER: Mike Strasser, delegate 21 CSR. 22 MR. MADIARA: Paul Madiara, delegate at 23 large. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I think that is 25 everyone. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 3 1 Unless the Company has anything they 2 would like to say ahead of time, I am going to jump 3 right into our proposal. 4 MS. McCLAIN: We have a response for 5 you, for your information. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. Thank you. 7 MS. McCLAIN: But we can do that after 8 or before, however you like. 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Let's go through the 10 proposal first, and then -- that would be helpful. 11 In case you need to caucus afterwards, you can leave 12 us with the information. 13 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: And then we can talk 15 about that as well. 16 Okay. Let me pull it up. Do you have 17 the proposal in front of you? Do you need me to 18 share my screen? 19 MS. McCLAIN: I am pulling it up. It 20 is up to you if you want to share your screen. It 21 is open. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I will go ahead and 23 share. On the first page of the proposal, some of 24 this might seem familiar to the Company because this 25 is language that has passed back and forth between Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 4 1 the Union and the Company multiple times. 2 Starting off, "In addition to all 3 previous tentative agreements, the Union counters 4 the following package: 5 "Discontinue the United Way Day Off 6 practice in conjunction with an agreement." 7 The United Way Day Off practice is 8 something that was afforded to us as a right to 9 bargain this agreement through arbitration. We did 10 bargain this to -- basically a tentative agreement 11 that was always contingent with the rest of the 12 agreement. However, when the Company declared 13 impasse and implemented -- they implemented a 14 different proposal. So the Union is maintaining 15 that this United Way Day Off practice is in 16 conjunction with the rest of the agreement. 17 Moving on from there. We have C1 dated 18 March 14, 2019. I don't want to undervalue this 19 because there was a period of time when the Company 20 told us that C1 was its only important proposal. 21 That was from the words out of the Company's chief 22 negotiator's mouth. 23 So this was a proposal that we worked 24 back and forth together to create something that was 25 mutually agreeable and particularly beneficial to Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 5 1 the Company financially and administratively. So, 2 this is something that is, again, something that we 3 agree to with the rest of the tentative agreements. 4 And moving forward, we have C5, which I 5 believe was mostly housekeeping. We have had an 6 agreement on as well since April 9 of 2019. 7 However, in, I believe, the spring of 2020 last 8 year, the Company made a change, which could be 9 included in C5, which was to change the proposal the 10 Company had made to map the Automotive Technician 11 group to Research Technician and Senior Research 12 Technician job families in the promotional chart. 13 The Company made the change to add a 14 third level, which I can't emphasize enough was, not 15 only was it a regression on the Company's own 16 proposal, but I really think it would be a huge 17 mistake on the part of the Company to have the 18 starting pay of such an important group start at 19 such a low level. Having these people in 20 progression for 14 years is demoralizing to the 21 people that are working there and they know it. 22 These people are not stupid. They understand how 23 their finances compound. 24 And quite frankly, hiring people at 25 such a low rate, you are not hiring people for the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 6 1 long-term. These people are going to look for 2 better opportunities elsewhere. And there are 3 competitive wages in the market at levels much 4 further above the Lab Technician rate, as we have 5 said multiple times throughout the course of this 6 bargaining. 7 So I can't emphasize enough how much of 8 a mistake, I think, it would be on the part of the 9 Company to have a starting rate of pay at such a low 10 level for this job family. But also, how regressive 11 the proposal was. Because it wasn't just the 12 proposal the ILEU submitted, this was a proposal 13 that the Company had to map those job 14 classifications to those two levels. 15 So the Union hasn't seen any reason to 16 move from that. They haven't had any justification 17 from the Company beyond flexibility. And frankly, 18 the flexibility argument regarding these jobs 19 doesn't really hold water because the Company can 20 make the job requirements for the Automotive 21 Technician whatever it wants. You don't have to 22 have the job requirement be artificially inflated 23 and make yourself feel like your hands are tied. So 24 that is that. 25 I am going to come back to C2 at the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 7 1 end because there is a lot to say about C2, as you 2 well know that we have said before. 3 I am going to turn your attention to 4 the side agreement for the Savings Plan Match. I am 5 just going to stop sharing my screen for a second 6 because I have to pull that up. 7 This is our side agreement for to the 8 Savings Plan Match. I will read it from top to 9 bottom. 10 "Side Agreement Company Match, March 11 11, 2021. This agreement is entered into by the 12 ILEU and ExxonMobil Research and Engineering 13 hereinafter known as the Company on the day the 14 agreement is reached. 15 "Number one. The Company match shall 16 be suspended for the time period of October 1, 2020 17 through December 31, 2022. On January 1, 2023, the 18 Company match shall be reduced to 3.5 percent for 19 the first $50,000 of earning for a 12-month period. 20 "Number two. At the conclusion of 12 21 months, the Company match shall revert back to seven 22 percent and the $50,000 cap shall be removed so that 23 the seven percent company match is applied for all 24 annual earnings. 25 "Number 3. In the event that the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 8 1 suspension of the Company match contribution is 2 lifted at any time prior to January 1, 2023 for any 3 U.S.-based employees within ExxonMobil, the Company 4 shall immediately reinstate the match in full for 5 all bargaining unit employees at that time. 6 "The parties agree that this agreement 7 is entered into on a non-precedent setting basis and 8 shall not be used in the future by the Company in 9 any attempt to modify its obligations under the 10 Savings Plan or any other negotiated or implied 11 benefit." 12 We have had a couple different passes 13 for this proposal where we tried to work with the 14 Company's stated needs and desires for the 15 suspension of the match, while also ensuring our 16 membership that they have some, you know, financial 17 stability looking forward into the future, that they 18 can depend on the Company for it to re-meet its 19 obligations on the Savings Plan Match as, you know, 20 many people have expected this is something that is 21 going to be a benefit that they are going to have 22 for their career. It is in the contract. It is 23 something that is very important to people's 24 retirement. It is some that ensures people are here 25 in this company for the long haul. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 9 1 The Company has said many, many times 2 that it hires people for a long career. It doesn't 3 hire people for temporary work. And having language 4 in the contract that says that the Company match is 5 suspended without any implication that it is going 6 to return is frankly demoralizing. And I have heard 7 a lot of -- I have heard this received very, very 8 negatively around the site. I am sure that that is 9 no news to you. However, we understand the Company 10 is in unprecedented financial times. 11 So, we are agreeing to suspend the 12 match for quite a lengthy period of time, all the 13 way up to 2023. And then even after the suspension, 14 it is reduced to some extent. It is reduced to 3.5 15 percent. So we think that this is a very good 16 proposal for the Company to meet its immediate 17 financial needs, and I think that this should be 18 considered very seriously because it is quite -- it 19 is, I think, quite the attractive proposal. 20 You have expressed that you don't want 21 to have any future obligations in terms of, like, 22 elevated financial obligations for the match, like 23 some of our past proposals included interest. So we 24 have removed some of those things. Now it is just a 25 temporary suspension. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 10 1 So I am going to move on from there. I 2 am going to move ahead to Educational Refund. I am 3 going to read the agreement on the suspension of the 4 Educational Refund Program. 5 "The Educational Refund Program is 6 suspended until May 31, 2024. Any temporary 7 contract extensions jointly agreed upon during 8 negotiations for a successorship agreement may also 9 apply to the program suspension under either 10 parties, the Company or the ILEU request. If at any 11 time the Company lifts the suspension of the program 12 for any U.S.-based employees within ExxonMobil, the 13 Company shall immediately reinstate the program for 14 the ILEU at that time." 15 This is an agreement to suspend the 16 Educational Refund Program. However, the Company's 17 language in its proposal was the Educational Refund 18 program is suspended, period. 19 I don't think that would be a good fit 20 for the contract. This is a suspension that makes 21 sense. It suspends it for the length of the 22 contract. The Company wants to negotiate during the 23 next contract to continue its suspension, this is 24 giving them the clear path to do so. So I think 25 this is really clear. It is clear not only now, but Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 11 1 it is also clear moving forward. 2 Now, U-10, which is Wages. 3 "The pay schedules will be adjusted for 4 all positions, retroactive to June 1, 2020. One 5 percent in Year 1. 1.5 percent in Year 2. 2 6 percent in year 3. 7.54 percent in Year 4. 7 "If the agreement is ratified by the 8 Union, a 5,000-dollar non-benefits bearing payment 9 will be paid. Bonus will be paid to all active 10 employees as of June 1, 2020." 11 As you can see, we have agreed to the 12 first three years of the Company's wage proposal. 13 We have pointed out with multiple different sources 14 of statistics. We have used the Company's sources, 15 including the Towers & Willis Wage Survey. We have 16 used our own sources to show that in particular our 17 starting pay is very under the industry average and 18 we are not agreeing that our pay is currently fair, 19 however, we understand that the Company is in the 20 immediate term under a tighter financial obligation 21 than it was when we first started bargaining. 22 So the first three years are in 23 agreement to the Company's wage proposal. This is a 24 lot of movement on the Union, in terms of it wage 25 proposal. We haven't moved this much on the wage Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 12 1 proposal at all, because we think that our wage 2 proposal was fair. 3 The 7.54 percent in Year 4 is the 4 difference between -- it is most of the difference 5 between the Company's and the ILEU's wage proposals. 6 However, that is without benefit of the 7 retroactivity, and that is without the benefit of 8 compounding for those three years. So it is still a 9 lower wage proposal overall. It is not totally made 10 up by having some of those wages be moved into the 11 last year. 12 I am going to move back up to C2 now. 13 "The Union proposes the following side 14 agreement regarding contracting. The Company may, 15 across all job families, utilize contractors to 16 staff relative to projects, work fluctuations, and 17 other short-term or discreet business needs. 18 "The Company may contract without 19 objection from the Union the following job families. 20 Mechanics, Material and Services Coordinator, 21 maintenance and operations, Audio Visual, Graphics 22 Design, Senior Repro Tech, Repro Services Tech 23 Assistant, Services Trainee, Senior Admin. Tech, and 24 Tech Assistant. 25 "All employees currently in these Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 13 1 positions will retain their jobs until they retire, 2 are promoted, are terminated according to the 3 provisions of Article XXVI or XXVII or leave on 4 their own accord. The provisions of Article XVIII 5 pertaining to demotions, layoffs, re-promotions, and 6 recalling of employees remain in effect." 7 This is -- just regarding the first 8 paragraph, this is, I think, a very clear proposal 9 on what the Company can do moving forward. The 10 Company has language that we have struck out in 11 there that references conversations we have had in 12 bargaining. It references previous proposals. I 13 don't think those are appropriate for our proposal 14 to stand on its own because it requires alternative 15 context, and the Company has made its desire known 16 to have this be a freestanding proposal that speaks 17 for itself. And so that is what this language is 18 achieving by striking out some of those references 19 to previous agreements. 20 In terms of the sentence regarding its 21 obligations to rehire, there are no other 22 obligations delineated in this proposal or in 23 Article XVIII that include that anyway, so it is 24 just not necessary. The Company hasn't really been 25 able to explain its desired effect on that either. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 14 1 So we have struck that out as well. 2 Again, this is a free-standing 3 proposal. It tells the Company what it can do, and 4 I think this meets the Company's needs on 5 contracting so far. 6 Moving on to notification amount in 7 Article XVIII has been changed to $250,000 for the 8 length of this agreement. To the extent there is a 9 dispute between this side agreement and any other 10 provisions of the CBA, this side letter shall 11 govern. It is a sentence that is in, as far as I 12 know, all of the side letters. It resolves disputes 13 between the contract and the side letter by telling 14 you which to look at. And it makes it clear that 15 the terms that are listed in the side letter are 16 essentially what to look at in regards to how to 17 handle contracting for anything like an arbitration 18 or anything like that. 19 However, the next paragraph that the 20 Union has struck out, which we have always struck 21 out, which we have told the Company is unacceptable 22 language, and the Company has told us it doesn't 23 need to run its business, isn't acceptable. It is 24 not going to ever be acceptable by the Union. It is 25 language that -- it limits our rights to legal Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 15 1 arbitrations. It limits the Company's rights to 2 look at other arbitrations that were in probably the 3 favor of the Company, as well. It honestly is 4 something that isn't agreeable now and will not be 5 agreeable in the future. 6 So, again, the next paragraph is struck 7 out. I don't think we need to say any more than 8 that, other than the fact that you don't need it. 9 And you know it. I think that speaks for itself. 10 And then lastly, "This agreement will 11 remain in effect until the expiration of the CBA, 12 and it may be modified with mutual consent of the 13 parties hereto." 14 This was a change. We tried multiple 15 times to have this be a more discretely temporary 16 agreement. And the Company wasn't meeting our 17 understanding of what we talked about previously. 18 So this is a side agreement that is now written as 19 all the other side agreements. So we took that part 20 about the ending shortly of the contract out. 21 I just want to reemphasize that this 22 proposal, as it is written, is standing on its own. 23 It is not something that needs to be referenced 24 externally, but we are not going to limit our legal 25 ability to do so. It is frankly absurd to think Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 16 1 that we would agree to that. 2 The Company has an agenda regarding 3 contracting that we are trying to meet with this 4 proposal. I think we have done that. Based on all 5 the feedback that we have gotten from Yuk, based on 6 all the feedback we have gotten from JeffeLee, I 7 think this proposal meets the Company's needs on all 8 of the real benefits to having this contracting 9 proposal. 10 And regarding -- looking forward, 11 consider this now under a very critical lens, 12 because 2021 is -- it is looking to be a lot 13 different 2020. There is a democratic house. There 14 is a democratic senate. There is a democratic 15 president. There is new pro-Union legislation being 16 introduced to the senate. Some of the most 17 pro-Union legislation for the past 30 years. And I 18 think the Company should consider this proposal more 19 seriously than it ever has. I think that it should 20 value the fact that this could be settled here and 21 now and allow it to maintain its business continuity 22 without interruption to meet its contracting needs 23 moving forward. 24 I think that we have already given a 25 lot of ground on this, and we have given a lot of Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 17 1 ground on the other areas. And I don't know what 2 else to say. 3 Steve, do you want to say anything? 4 MR. RAGOMO: Yes, Tom, I would like to 5 add a few things here. In terms of what I believe 6 Tom is referencing at the end there was the Pro Act 7 that was put in front of the house and it truly 8 does -- I think it would behoove the Company to 9 really take our proposal serious because going 10 forward, if the bill does pass, and it goes through 11 the senate, it is going to afford us a lot more 12 leverage, if you will, for lack of a better term, 13 and I believe it is something that we are -- we are 14 showing we are willing to move with things to help 15 the Company in their time of distress. 16 But I will tell you that if the act 17 does pass, and there are certain provisions in 18 there, that we will have the right to exercise. And 19 being the president, I will most certainly encourage 20 and try and exercise a lot of those rights that are 21 in the bill as it is. 22 That being said, I also understand that 23 the Company does and needs the flexibility that was 24 referenced in the prior meeting we had. And I think 25 we made quite a bit of support in terms of how we, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 18 1 the Union, are helping the Company with those 2 flexibilities. But there is a couple things that I 3 do want to add in here that I would like to 4 reference and this was dated Friday, March 5, from 5 Vijay at 18:07. And I am just going to read this 6 one line towards the end here, where it says that, 7 "The chairman spent considerable time discussing 8 ExxonMobil's low carbon technologies work. The work 9 we do in Clinton, together with our partners in 10 academia, the government labs and private sector was 11 highlighted as the cornerstone of our long-term 12 business strategy. On behalf of the entire company 13 I want to again thank you all for the critical work 14 you do." 15 So that is coming from Vijay. But more 16 importantly, it is coming from Chairman Woods that 17 the critical work is being done in Clinton. So we 18 are necessary. We are extremely important. We are 19 vital to this corporation to go forward, if they 20 choose to, but it has to be something that is fair 21 and just to our membership. 22 The other one I want to add in and 23 please, if you will allow me, this is dated Sunday, 24 February 28, at 12:23. "As we approach the 25 anniversary of the national pandemic lockdown, I Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 19 1 want to take this opportunity to thank you for the 2 resilience and the dedication that you have shown to 3 support the Clinton Research Center and our business 4 partners. You have continued to provide excellent 5 blend quality, turnaround times, and customer 6 responsiveness to allow LT, Lubes Technology, 7 business partners to process their programs as 8 scheduled, including expanded blend quality offering 9 from 500 gallons to 1100 gallons that provide LT 10 business partners with quicker turnaround times to 11 capitalize on short timeframe field trial 12 opportunities. 13 "You have also conducted training in 14 some areas to fully utilize Technician capabilities 15 and offer flexibility with fluctuating demand and 16 identifying and implementing the lab efficiencies. 17 Items including testing and manufacturing equipment 18 upgrade to increase safety" -- safety, I want to 19 emphasize that word. That is me emphasizing, not 20 the letter -- "and productivity. Please continue to 21 take care of yourselves to stay safe and healthy. 22 Regards, Yuk Louie." 23 So I entered these two in because I 24 think this shows quite a bit of support from upper 25 management that we are being flexible, we are trying Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 20 1 to help the Corporation to move along. So I think 2 for now, those are the few things that I have to 3 say. JeffeLee, I know you had mentioned at the 4 beginning that you had something in response too. 5 So I think before I actually say any more, I would 6 prefer to hear what you have to offer. 7 MS. McCLAIN: I just had a couple 8 questions on the proposal, if that is okay, and then 9 we can get to that. 10 So why don't we, if that is okay, start 11 with where you started. I just wanted to gain, you 12 know, clarity here. Looking at the main proposal 13 package, if that is okay. 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Sure. 15 MS. McCLAIN: So just so I understand, 16 it is on C1, the understanding -- I just wanted to 17 clarify what you were saying that we have tentative 18 agreement on C1 was your understanding. I mean, we 19 have -- 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I wouldn't say it is 21 exactly a tentative agreement because C1 has been 22 part of the package. However, we have been 23 consistent on not making any changes to it. We have 24 been consistent on affording you the right to do it 25 and moving forward, and it has been part of this Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 21 1 package that we have passed back and forth many 2 times. But the Union is not saying that we want to 3 break it out of the package, no. 4 MS. McCLAIN: All right. 5 Was there a particular reason that you 6 had 2023 as the starting points on the Savings Plan 7 proposal? 8 MR. FREDRIKSEN: 2023 on the starting 9 point? 10 MS. McCLAIN: The three and a half 11 percent. 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It was just something 13 that allowed the Company to, you know, not have to 14 immediately start paying everything back at a 15 certain date. And so it is a gradual increase back 16 to the norm. That is it. No particular reason for 17 it to be 2023, no. 18 MS. McCLAIN: And 50,000 was just a 19 number that you were -- 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is less than the 21 full salary of most of the people -- I think 22 everybody in the bargaining unit. So again, it is a 23 reduced obligation, reduced financial obligation for 24 the Company. They were just attempts to sort of 25 help. That is it. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 22 1 MS. McCLAIN: Thanks for that clarify. 2 I appreciate that. 3 The next one, on 2020, I assume it is 4 the same thing for the 12 months of 2014, right? 5 That was just a date and time that you picked, that 6 you felt best? 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes. If the Company 8 has another suggestion on any of those, then we are 9 more than willing to hear them. 10 MS. McCLAIN: And I know you said that 11 you thought that this proposal met the Company's 12 needs, and what -- 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You told us -- 14 MS. McCLAIN: -- we have been talking 15 about, that we were looking for, you know, immediate 16 cost savings equal to or greater than what the 17 Company proposed, maintaining uniformity of 18 benefits, and avoiding any future financial 19 obligation for the Company. And so right now how -- 20 on those three things, how does this address those 21 three? 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I will point out for 23 the record that you didn't delineate all of those 24 needs all at once, those needs came out through the 25 course of bargaining while we were passing proposals Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 23 1 back and forth. The avoiding future financial 2 obligations, in particular, was something that the 3 Company spoke in response to us asking for interest 4 repayments on the Savings Plan, more as like a loan 5 from the bargaining unit, rather than as a total 6 suspension. And so we have removed those. That was 7 our understanding of what that comment was addressed 8 to. 9 Saying that the Savings Plan Match will 10 eventually come back in the future isn't really a 11 future financial obligation, so much as it is just 12 the fact that this is a suspension and not a 13 permanent change. Does that make sense? 14 MS. McCLAIN: I understand that. And 15 then the maintaining uniformity of benefits. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is the Company's 17 right to do that. You can offer this to everybody 18 else if you want. 19 Right, Steve? I mean, am I wrong? 20 MR. RAGOMO: No. The Company, I 21 believe in their language says that it was a 22 suspension, which a suspension doesn't mean it is 23 terminated. It is just a suspension to a period of 24 time. 25 MS. McCLAIN: That is correct. That is Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 24 1 what we have said, this is a suspension. This is a 2 suspension with dates that the Union is proposing 3 that it ceases. Right? So the benefit would be 4 different for the rest of the Company and the ILEU. 5 There is administrative costs that go on with that. 6 I just -- and other things that we looked at. 7 But I just wanted to understand where 8 you were coming from in understanding and how this 9 applied, you know, to that need around maintaining 10 uniformity of benefits. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: This benefit is only 12 different if the Company wants it to be different. 13 There is nothing stopping you from offering this 14 elsewhere. 15 MS. McCLAIN: But it is different, 16 right, from what we have proposed. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right, of course it 18 is. 19 MS. McCLAIN: Which is the same for 20 everyone else. 21 And just another question on -- let's 22 see what my other question was. And just to 23 clarify, Ed Refund, you are saying that that is a 24 suspension, but now it is tied with the length of 25 the contract and if we extend, jointly extend the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 25 1 contract, then this provision of suspension would 2 also extend. Am I understanding correct? 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That is the intent of 4 the language, yes. 5 I mean, looking at what we did, right, 6 we talked a lot about adding Ed Refund to the other 7 program section. And then you just wanted to just 8 add another line underneath it that said it is 9 suspended. And it is very unclear and it is -- 10 quite frankly it is weird to do that. So we are 11 adding the Educational Refund Program. We are 12 suspending it, but we are saying what the suspension 13 is, how it works, but it is temporary. It is 14 something that we can extend if the Company and the 15 ILEU have an extension during contract negotiations, 16 and it is something that the Company can bargain to 17 extend as well during the next negotiations, just 18 like any other temporary agreement. 19 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. I just want to 20 make sure my understanding was clear because I know 21 previously we had discussed it ending earlier than 22 the contract or something like that for where the 23 Union is coming from. 24 On wages, I see that, like you said, 25 your proposing one, which is matches the Company Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 26 1 one, one and a half and two in the first three 2 years. Help me understand what you were saying 3 about the 7.54 percent in the fourth year. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Sure. Our previous 5 proposal was, and forgive me if I am not remembering 6 exactly. 3.54 percent, 3 percent -- no, I am sorry. 7 3.54 percent, 2.5 percent, 3 percent, 3 percent. I 8 think that was it. And so the difference between 9 the Company's proposals in terms of just the raw 10 percentages and the Union's, we moved those 11 differences all into the last year. And like I 12 said, just moving the differences doesn't make it 13 the same because we are losing out on the 14 compounding. We are losing out on having the wages 15 early, and some people are losing out on it forever 16 because people are retiring now. 17 So it is still a movement backwards for 18 the Union to propose what we did. It is not the 19 same proposal. It is not that we moved everything 20 into the last year. I just want to emphasize the 21 loss of that compounding. Does that make sense? It 22 is the difference between our two proposals in terms 23 of the raw percentages that is just moved into the 24 last year. 25 MS. McCLAIN: Yes, I got that, and I Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 27 1 understand that now. Thank you for that. 2 Team, any other questions right now? I 3 just wanted those clarifying points to help me 4 better understand. 5 MR. BRYANT: No, JeffeLee, what we 6 talked about earlier, that is what I was curious 7 about. 8 MR. FREDRIKSEN: What? 9 MS. McCLAIN: So I don't have any other 10 questions on the proposal right now. So what I will 11 do is I will send you over the information request 12 and we can talk through that. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Cool. Okay. 14 MS. McCLAIN: Let me make sure I have 15 everybody's names or should I just send it to you 16 and Tom and Steve and you can disseminate as you see 17 fit, and Rita? Is that acceptable? 18 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You can, yes. You can 19 send it to the bargaining team or you can send it to 20 us and we will distribute it, either way. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 MS. McCLAIN: So, Tom, you asked about, 23 there were difference between the 2019 surveys and 24 the other surveys. And at least when we took a look 25 at 2015 to 2018 were pretty consistent in the types Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 28 1 of jobs that were listed, positions that were 2 listed. And wages seemed inconsistent in 2019. We 3 went back to the compensation design group, and as 4 you know we have talked that, you know, they pull 5 this information directly from our systems, 6 Company's systems, and make the submission. 7 However, unfortunately, the person who made the 2019 8 submission was different from the person that did it 9 previous to that, but that person is no longer with 10 the Company. And the new folks in Buenos Aires 11 could not give us an explanation as to why the data 12 appeared inconsistent for 2019. So we don't have an 13 answer for you as to why that person did what they 14 did in 2019. 15 The second one, you asked that, the 16 Company told the ILEU that it defines Research Tech 17 as T2 to help justify the median wage. Why did the 18 Company report to Willis Towers or Towers Willis 19 Watson that Research Tech is T3? And again, the 20 compensation data group gets the data out of our 21 systems and does the submission by themselves. We 22 have not -- in the past and now, we have not been 23 involved in the submission, only the receipt of the 24 study findings that we gave you or the survey 25 findings that we have looked at and discussed and Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 29 1 provided to you. 2 And their methodology that they used 3 was to apply years of service based on submission. 4 And so they categorized incorrectly where our jobs 5 are not based on that. They are based on matching 6 the qualifications of the position, like we said. 7 And so we have requested that we locally be involved 8 in the submission process now, you know, for any 9 data that is provided Willis Towers Watson on our 10 behalf. 11 So it was a good catch on your part. 12 We wouldn't have known what they were doing in the 13 submission pieces because we weren't involved in 14 that. 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. I mean, we are 16 going to digest this, but I just want to point out 17 immediately, like, the way that that was handled was 18 that it was basically dragging down the average wage 19 for the whole industry. So I would say that this is 20 even more evidence that the wages that were offered 21 by Tower Willis & Watson were lower than they should 22 have been. And so, again, this is just -- I know 23 you have a comment in there saying this isn't the 24 only thing that you use, but... 25 MS. McCLAIN: Correct. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 30 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: This data is showing 2 we are underpaid. 3 MS. McCLAIN: This isn't the only 4 factor that we have used. Like we have talked 5 about, you know, we take multiple factors in 6 determining the proposals. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Thank you. 8 MS. McCLAIN: So at this point, do you 9 have any other questions? We can caucus and I will 10 talk with my team about the proposal that you 11 provided. 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I have nothing. 13 MR. RAGOMO: No, not at this time. 14 MS. McCLAIN: All right. 15 We will text you when we are ready to come back, 16 Steve and Tom. 17 MR. RAGOMO: Perfect. That is great. 18 Thank you. 19 (Remote negotiations recessed at 9:50 20 a.m. and resumed at 11:15 a.m.) 21 MS. McCLAIN: So thank you so much. 22 You know, we took a lot of time, I know, but the 23 team, you know, looked over the proposals and we 24 still have a few questions that we needed some 25 clarity on, if that is okay. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 31 1 MR. RAGOMO: Of course. 2 MS. McCLAIN: So if we start, you know, 3 with the United Way, we just wanted to get clarity 4 from you on -- you know, you stated that this was 5 different, that the Company implemented a different 6 proposal and we -- at least I just didn't 7 understand, I am not quite following when you say 8 that. So could you clarify for me how and why you 9 see this proposal being different from any other 10 proposal, you know, and not subject to impasse or 11 implementation at impasse? 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Sure. It is just what 13 it says on the piece of paper, though. It says in 14 conjunction with the rest of the agreement, but the 15 Company implemented an unconditional cessation of 16 the United Way. Our arbitration award was to 17 bargain this to completion and we were doing that so 18 in negotiations. What we were bargaining for and 19 what we had a meeting of the minds over and what was 20 exchanged back and forth between the Company and the 21 Union multiple times was that in conjunction with an 22 agreement we would have this United Way Day 23 suspended moving forward. What the Company 24 implemented was just to stop it with no agreement. 25 It is very simple. That is what it says on the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 32 1 paper. 2 MS. McCLAIN: I guess where I am 3 confused is, you know, every proposal assumes that 4 it will be part of a broader agreement. So are you 5 saying that there is, you know, no ability for the 6 Company to declare impasse and implement any 7 proposal that we put on the table? 8 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Well, first of all, 9 JeffeLee, we are not at impasse. 10 MS. McCLAIN: I just wanted to 11 understand that. 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We are not at impasse. 13 And so it sounds like you are setting up a legal 14 argument. 15 MS. McCLAIN: No, I am definitely not. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I don't think we 17 really need to entertain that. 18 MS. McCLAIN: I just wanted to 19 understand, you know, because you brought that up. 20 So I was just trying to understand how it is 21 different and, you know, from anything else that we 22 say, any proposal that we put that we assume that it 23 would be part of a broader view when we are 24 bargaining. So definitely not trying to set up any 25 legal argument. We are just trying to understand. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 33 1 And this is a point that you brought up. So that is 2 why I wanted the clarification. 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I stand by what I 4 said. The proposal, as it was written, as it was 5 understood, as it was discussed, and as it was 6 agreed upon was not what the Company implemented, 7 and that is that. 8 MS. McCLAIN: Well, I think we, you 9 know, agreed upon that the United Way Day would 10 stop, right? 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Going forward, in 12 conjunction with the agreement. 13 MS. McCLAIN: And the Company has the 14 ability to -- you know, once we have talked about it 15 for what, three years, two and a half years, at that 16 point, almost three years now, to declare an impasse 17 and implement. But I just wanted to get clarity on 18 that since you brought that up. 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We are not at impasse. 20 The Company made changes six weeks prior to the 21 impasse. We really don't need to get into it. 22 MS. McCLAIN: It was a question for 23 clarity on the point that you brought up. 24 On the Auto Tech, I just wanted to 25 clarify. You know, we had provided proposals in the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 34 1 intent that Auto Techs would match the Research Tech 2 job family. You know, there are different levels of 3 qualifications, we have provided you those job 4 descriptions. So we do think that the Technician, 5 you know, position is necessary to maintain, 6 particularly if we have to hire someone lower level 7 in skill set, you know, than the folks who moved 8 from Paulsboro, you know, just to make sure that 9 there is an equitable distribution and to be 10 commensurate with their experience. And so that is 11 why we think that the Technician position is 12 necessary there. But that is our explanation as to 13 why we think it is necessary. This isn't an answer 14 right now. 15 Were you going to say something, Steve? 16 MR. RAGOMO: I was. To speak to that, 17 I can almost tell you as a matter of fact, you are 18 not going to get Auto Mechanics coming in the door 19 for what you think you are going to pay them. It 20 just won't happen. The market, they can leave and 21 they are, so you have -- you are losing a very 22 young, highly qualified Auto Tech, that to me, quite 23 honestly, the Company can ill-afford to lose right 24 at this point in time. 25 It does, as Tom stated, it is almost an Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 35 1 insult to these individuals that, well, we are going 2 bring you in at this lower rate. We have lost a few 3 of these Auto Techs because of the wages, and you 4 are going to lose more. You are going to lose more. 5 So if you think you are going to bring in qualified 6 people, individuals that can do and perform the job, 7 it is the Company's business, but I think in terms 8 of long-term, you are not longing long-term, you are 9 very short-sighted in that sense. 10 I am with Tom, there does not need to 11 be three levels. I think it is one of those that 12 you ask an Auto Tech to come in and have to go 13 through the arduous step by step to try and get to 14 the top rate over that period of time, you will lose 15 them rather quickly. They will shop themselves, 16 they will find better positions, and you will lose 17 them. And you will have invested a bunch of time in 18 these people training and getting them up to stuff, 19 and then they are going to walk out the door. And 20 that, to me, is just -- you are not being proactive. 21 You are not seeing the bigger picture for this 22 corporation. 23 MS. McCLAIN: So I think there is a 24 point that I want to clarify. What the proposal 25 says isn't that everyone is coming in at the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 36 1 Technician start rate. It is, you know, if they 2 have that level of experience that warrants them 3 coming in there. 4 Yuk, is that correct? That, you know, 5 we will look at years of experience, we will look at 6 qualifications, as we always have, and take that 7 into account when determining where they are in 8 progression. What we are saying is if we have 9 someone who doesn't have the necessary, you know, 10 experience and requisite history, that we have the 11 Technician start rates to account for that. 12 Is that correct, Yuk? Did I represent 13 that accurately? 14 MS. LOUIE: Yes, that is correct, it is 15 just like the Research Technician rate. We have 16 always had a practice where we look at people's 17 skill and we slot them in the appropriate level. 18 And yet, for the longest time, we did not use the 19 Technician rate even for the Research Techs. But it 20 is there and, you know, recently we did use it. And 21 so we just want to set ourselves up for flexibility 22 to bring in people with different skills. 23 MR. RAGOMO: Well, our position is that 24 you have that right to do it. You don't need the 25 Research Tech level there. I can almost guarantee Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 37 1 you, if that is what you are planning on doing in 2 bringing in those that are lesser qualified, 3 speaking with the Auto Techs and what goes on down 4 there, you are setting the whole group up for 5 failure. And how you would even entertain bringing 6 someone in at the lower rate is beyond me. I don't 7 believe that we should even have that first 8 qualification for Technicians. 9 Again, it is very short-sighted on the 10 Company's part. I believe that management is not 11 looking at the bigger picture and the long-term goal 12 of supporting our business partners. So I will 13 leave it there. 14 MS. LOUIE: We can agree to disagree. 15 MR. RAGOMO: Yes, ma'am, we can. 16 MS. McCLAIN: I just wanted to provide 17 that clarification because it still seems that there 18 is a disconnect as to, you know, the Company's 19 intent of using the Technician position and wanting 20 to provide that clarity, you know, that it would be 21 based on qualification. If we looked at somebody's 22 background and they qualified for the higher rate, 23 then they get that higher rate. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: But, JeffeLee, the 25 problem is, you have never actually demonstrated Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 38 1 that, other than initially. You have never actually 2 demonstrated that the qualifications you set up for 3 the, quote/unquote, Auto Technician, the lowest rate 4 that you want to have come in, which is at the Lab 5 Technician rate, you never actually paired that with 6 the qualifications that you are saying are the 7 requirement. I think it was something like three 8 years of experience for the lowest level. You have 9 never actually shown that that is something that 10 deserves that rate of pay. And we believe that that 11 level of experience is more deserving of the middle 12 tier, which is what you are calling the Advanced 13 Automotive Technician. 14 Can I just say something? I never 15 understood why you went with Automotive Tech, 16 Advanced Automotive Tech and then Senior Automotive 17 Tech, when there is nothing else in the bargaining 18 unit that has that kind of structure. Why is 19 Advanced the middle level? Why did you choose that 20 name? It is confusing. It is not consistent. 21 MS. McCLAIN: I think what we were 22 trying to do, and help me if I forget, Yuk, but I 23 thought we looked at the titles that were -- and I 24 can't remember what was in the market data, but you 25 know, we were trying to distinguish between the, you Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 39 1 know, Research Technician, the Technician level at 2 Research Technician, Automotive Technician, and then 3 the mid-level for Research Technician is Research 4 Technician. Right? So we were just trying to 5 balance all of that and distinguish the Automotive 6 Technician, that this was clearly an Automotive 7 Technician, and then an Advanced Technician and then 8 a Senior, you know... 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You said you have 10 market data for the Automotive Technician? 11 MS. McCLAIN: No, I said I can't recall 12 what it was. I will have to go back and take a 13 look. I can't recall if we based it on the market 14 data or if we were just trying to distinguish a 15 category between the Technician that is under 16 Research and the Technician that is in Automotive. 17 I can't recall right now, but I remember 18 conversations to that effect. But I can give you a 19 response. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yeah, I am going to go 21 ahead and formalize the question. If the Company 22 has market data regarding the rates of pay that they 23 are desiring for the Automotive Technicians, please 24 submit that to the ILEU. 25 MS. McCLAIN: Sure. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 40 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Thank you. 2 MS. McCLAIN: I think we have given 3 whatever market data we have had, but we will 4 provide that if -- we will take a look at what we 5 have provided, but I think we have provided you all 6 the market data that we have had. 7 MR. RAGOMO: I haven't received it. So 8 if you would be so kind, if I could have something. 9 Thank you. 10 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Any other 11 questions? 12 MR. BRYANT: No, you have covered it, 13 Jeffe. 14 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 15 Next question was about contracting out 16 because I don't think we asked too many questions on 17 that one. I wanted to talk with the team, just to 18 see where we were on that. 19 We just wanted to clarify on the use of 20 contractors where you say we can continue to use 21 contractors for projects, work fluctuations, other 22 short-term discreet business needs. He have had 23 lots of conversation about this in the past. The 24 last discussion we had, you know, you had brought 25 forward some questions around Research Techs. So we Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 41 1 just want to get clarity. Where are you on Research 2 Techs and using contractors in Research Tech 3 positions, and ET positions and the other positions 4 that are not named here in this second part? Did 5 your positions change on that? 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I think our position 7 has been consistent that -- can I just organize my 8 thoughts with Steve? Can I have a brief caucus and 9 then we will get back to you? 10 MS. McCLAIN: Of course. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Five minutes. 12 (Mr. Ragomo and Mr. Fredriksen took a 13 caucus from 11:32 a.m. to 11:35 a.m.) 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Any position that is 15 not listed in the proposal after -- following job 16 families, like Mechanics, Material & Services 17 Coordinator is addressed by the first sentence in 18 the proposal, which says, "You may, across all job 19 families, utilize contractors to staff relative to 20 projects, work fluctuations or other short-term 21 discreet business needs." That includes Research 22 Technicians. 23 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Thank you. I 24 appreciate that. 25 Next question. Just a quick item Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 42 1 really. I see here, you know, you left in the 2 250,000 for the length of the agreement, the 3 notification amount, that was a proposal that the 4 Company had to increase the amount. With the -- is 5 it your take that that is still needed? We just 6 wanted to test and get your feedback. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Well, I mean, without 8 it, you are going to have to notify us for anything 9 over 50,000, right? 10 MS. McCLAIN: Well, I guess broader 11 than that. Was it, you know, still the Union's 12 interest to have any notifications about that? 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes, I think so. Yes, 14 I mean, it is in the proposal. Right? 15 MR. RAGOMO: Yes. 16 MS. McCLAIN: Historically, prior to 17 bargaining, you know, we had -- although there was 18 contract language, you know, we had mutually agreed 19 to stop that notification between the leadership 20 teams in the past. I was just checking your 21 thoughts on whether or not that was necessary. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I think those were 23 temporary agreements that were meant for the term of 24 bargaining. I am not 100 percent familiar with what 25 you are talking about. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 43 1 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 2 MR. FREDRIKSEN: If it is in writing, 3 you can send it to me and Steve. 4 MS. McCLAIN: It was really just to 5 test. This is information that you need? Something 6 that you do with it? Because of course, it is an 7 activity that happens that we -- you know, an 8 administrative activity that we have to undertake, 9 and I just wanted to test your thoughts about what 10 do you need it -- do you really need it? Do you 11 want it? You know, things like that. That is all I 12 was asking. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. 14 MS. McCLAIN: And so I am hearing from 15 you that you want to keep it? 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes. 17 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 18 The next question that I had, just a 19 follow-up, and Yuk, if you want to interject. On 20 the notification information, what do you do with 21 that information? 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: For the dollar amount? 23 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is something so 25 that we -- my understanding of it right now is, and Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 44 1 I am not prepared to answer this question, but I am 2 answering it, is that it is used to keep a line of 3 communication open between the Union and the Company 4 as to the extent to which they are contracting out 5 our jobs. 6 MS. LOUIE: In your proposal you said, 7 made contract without objection from Union. That is 8 why I am trying to understand if you are telling us 9 that we can contract out, why is it that I still 10 have to give you monthly notice whether I am 11 contracting out? 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: To contract out 13 without objection from the Union is the following 14 job families, Mechanics, Material & Services 15 Coordinator, Maintenance and Operations, et cetera. 16 MS. LOUIE: So I am just -- 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We still want to know. 18 There is nothing -- we are entitled to the 19 information. We still want to know. 20 MR. RAGOMO: For informational 21 purposes. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: To add to it, without 23 objection from the Union is the following job 24 families. It is not the rest of the job families. 25 It is the ones that I have said there. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 45 1 MS. LOUIE: So, again, I am just trying 2 to get clarity. So for those that you don't give 3 objection, I don't have to tell you that we are 4 contracting out; and only those that is excluded 5 from this that you are seeking for me to provide 6 information? 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: No, we would want the 8 information for all of it. We just won't object to 9 the other stuff. Right now. If you are proposing 10 that we modify the notifications to not include 11 those, then make a counteroffer. 12 MS. LOUIE: Again -- 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right now it is all 14 positions we would like to be notified. 15 MS. LOUIE: Okay. Again, I am just 16 asking for clarity because I am trying to understand 17 what does it mean when you have certain language, 18 okay? 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Sure. 20 MS. LOUIE: Thank you. 21 MS. McCLAIN: Staying with the 22 contracting out proposal, you know, we see that you 23 struck out the language saying, you know, "For the 24 duration of this agreement the Company may also 25 continue any contracting of work and/or positions Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 46 1 done prior to the date of this letter. And the 2 Company is not obligated during the term of the side 3 agreement to replace those employees with 4 contractors." 5 I just wanted clarity around the 6 conversations that we have had over the years during 7 bargaining where the Union made, you know, 8 statements that it was their intent that the Company 9 have to hire back in certain positions. 10 You know, we are now seeing that we can 11 contract out here under this language, what you have 12 proposed without objection, in the following job 13 families, and it now includes, you know, Material 14 Services Coordinator, which is one of those jobs 15 that we had had discussion about. So, you know, can 16 you just help me understand what the Union's intent 17 is, you know, that we, as a company, can be clear, 18 you know, about where you stand on rehiring in 19 positions that have been contracted out prior to, 20 you know, if we reach an agreement on this. 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You are probably 22 asking about sample management. 23 MS. McCLAIN: Sample management. Okay. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: If you agree to this 25 proposal, it says that you can contract them out Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 47 1 without objection from the Union. That is what it 2 says. 3 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is not talking 5 about anything that happens before the proposal is 6 ratified, because we can't go back in time and make 7 you rehire somebody in the past and then contract 8 them out in the future. That doesn't make sense. 9 So until we have a deal, you don't have a deal, 10 right, you don't have a proposal. You don't have 11 the right to do that. And that is why this 12 proposal, I think, maybe you are starting to see the 13 value of having this proposal be ratified so that 14 you can contract out those positions without 15 objection from the Union. 16 Does that answer your question? 17 MS. McCLAIN: In a way. I think I am 18 hearing that you are saying that it would be kind of 19 go forward if we have an agreement, you know, and 20 those positions are contracted out, then, you know, 21 the Company would not be expected to go back in time 22 and rehire in those positions since the language 23 would say that we have the right to contract out. 24 That is what I heard you say. 25 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That is what it says. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 48 1 If you don't have an agreement, though, those 2 positions are Union jobs. 3 MR. RAGOMO: And they still are union 4 jobs. 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right, they are still 6 in the bargaining. 7 MR. RAGOMO: They are still in the 8 bargaining -- absolutely, they still stay underneath 9 the bargaining agreement. 10 MS. McCLAIN: Uh-huh. And -- 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: And so if you ever had 12 employees in those positions, they would be covered 13 under this agreement. 14 MS. McCLAIN: Right. I think we have 15 talked about that. We have talked about that. I 16 just wanted to understand, you know. 17 MS. LOUIE: I am still confused. 18 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Maybe you are 19 overthinking it. If you don't have this proposal, 20 you don't have the right to contract those jobs out 21 without objection from the Union because the 22 proposal is what is allowing you to do it. It is 23 actually very simple. I promise you. Until you 24 have this proposal, you don't have the right to 25 that. That is our position. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 49 1 MS. McCLAIN: I guess what I was 2 looking at -- I understand where -- I understand 3 that position. My question, you know, was, you 4 know, is it the Union's intent -- maybe I can say 5 this clear. Is it the Union's intent that during 6 the term of bargaining -- you know, let's say we 7 ratify this tomorrow, as an example. During the 8 term of bargaining, since we started in May of 2018 9 until now, that it is your intent that we didn't 10 have that right and we have to hire in the position 11 that is existed during that time. 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That is a really 13 confusing question. Can you rephrase that? 14 MS. McCLAIN: I am just going to use an 15 example, right, made up numbers. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Sure. 17 MS. McCLAIN: Let's say in sample 18 management. If we are using four contractors today 19 and they came to the site when we moved, you know, 20 and built up that group to support, you know, new 21 activity, whatever it might be. Let's say they came 22 January 2018. Again, this is made-up updates just 23 to be illustrative of my question. 24 Between January 2018, and let's say we 25 ratify tomorrow. Well, let's take March 15. It is Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 50 1 my birthday. 2 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Happy birthday. 3 MR. RAGOMO: Happy birthday. 4 MS. McCLAIN: And March 15 of 2021, 5 what is the Union's intent of the Company's ability 6 to permanently contract out those particular 7 positions, and would we need -- would the Company be 8 expected to rehire or hire employees into the 9 positions that existed prior to March 15, 2021? Do 10 you understand my question? 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I do. I am going to 12 ask for one more breakout. I am sorry. I know we 13 are getting close to the time. 14 MS. McCLAIN: It is okay. We have been 15 talking about this for almost two and a half years. 16 So there is lots of question. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I have a feeling we 18 are on the cusp of understanding. I would like to 19 breakout with Steve one more time. 20 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 21 (Mr. Ragomo and Mr. Fredriksen took a 22 caucus from 11:47 a.m. to 11:50 a.m.) 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The question was if 24 the contract is ratified on March 15th would the 25 Company be obligated to hire any of the SMG group, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 51 1 for example. And the answer is, if this proposal 2 was ratified as it is, there is no obligation for 3 the Company to hire any of the existing something 4 contractors. 5 However, I would like to point out for 6 the record, the purpose of this proposal is not to 7 remove any of these positions from the bargaining 8 unit. And you have said this before, if there are 9 ever any employees in these positions, it would be 10 covered under this agreement. If there are ever any 11 backdowns, transfers or layoffs, we retain those 12 rights to potentially those positions. 13 If there is any other language in the 14 contract regarding something that moves a person 15 into another position, for example, and I am just 16 speaking very broadly, those are still available as 17 bargaining unit positions. 18 So just to answer the question 19 discreetly, though, you are not obligated to hire 20 the existing contractors. Does that hopefully 21 answer your question? 22 MS. McCLAIN: Yes, I think that at 23 least provides clarity for me right now. I think 24 there was still conversation, you know, during our 25 caucus as a team where we had different opinions Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 52 1 about what your intent was and what -- you know, so 2 helping to provide clarity, so I may have to caucus 3 with my team just to see if -- 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I think we should 5 probably caucus too. If you have any more questions 6 though to give to us so we can discuss that during 7 caucus. 8 MS. McCLAIN: Yes, exactly. That is 9 fine. 10 So a couple other questions I did have. 11 You know, we have had a lot of conversation around 12 the arbitration language that is in the proposal 13 that was struck through. And, you know, you stated 14 that, you know, the -- by removing the language, it 15 would help the Company. And, you know, I didn't 16 understand what you were meaning by that, but a 17 couple questions popped up for me and for the team 18 here. 19 And so I just want to add, again, how 20 does, you know, the language preclude you from 21 exercising your rights to arbitration? And what -- 22 you know, we have been talking around this issue for 23 two-and-a-half years, and if we are gaining clarity 24 about our intent and what is necessary here in this 25 bargaining with the language and the side letters, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 53 1 you know, what benefit is there for us to rely on 2 old cases when this is what we agreed to? So I just 3 want to -- you know, you can think about it. I just 4 had those questions about what is -- so. 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I have a response. I 6 would like to think about it more, but I have an 7 immediate response that probably doesn't fully 8 answer your question, so we will get back to you 9 with a full response. But I am not an attorney, I 10 am not a lawyer, I didn't go to law school, I don't 11 have an encyclopedic knowledge of case law. I do 12 not know what has happened throughout the entire 13 course of labor relations between companies and 14 unions regarding contractors. 15 Every attorney that has looked at this 16 sentence has said, "No way do you want to have this 17 in your contract." I am trusting them for that to 18 mean that there is some malicious intent behind 19 this, and I have expressed as such to you, to your 20 face multiple times that I don't want this -- I am 21 not comfortable with this sentence, this paragraph 22 being in the contract. Partly because I don't fully 23 understand and I don't think I am capable of 24 understanding the full gravity of the rights that it 25 is restricting from us in terms of how we can settle Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 54 1 arbitrations in the future. 2 I don't think anything that you explain 3 to me is going to be able to make me understand that 4 because it would be something short of me going to 5 law school for 14 years for me to understand that, 6 for labor relations. Because it is about a specific 7 field of law. What you are doing with this sentence 8 is you are limiting our rights to arbitration. And 9 you are limiting arbitrators from being able to look 10 at maybe a 100 years of labor relation between 11 unions and companies. And it is just so broad and 12 sweeping, that I just think that as a Union, it 13 would be a disservice to our membership and it would 14 be a disservice to the future existence of this 15 Union to agree to something like that. 16 And I know that was all very grandiose, 17 so you can take some time to digest that, and we 18 will probably come back to you with another 19 response, but that is my personal feelings on the 20 matter. I hope that enlightens you as to -- 21 MS. McCLAIN: You know, we will take 22 some time. I think I hear what you are saying. We 23 have again said it is -- there is no mal-intent. I 24 mean, again, if you are looking -- we both are not 25 attorneys. We are both not in the labor space of Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 55 1 law. But that is -- my understanding isn't -- it is 2 not what this says. This says, you know, that we 3 are looking to make sure that our understanding 4 between one another is what is outlined right in the 5 article and in this agreement, since we have talked 6 about his so much. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That is what the 8 preceding sentence says, that is what that says. 9 And that is in the other side letters, and that is 10 why I am comfortable with including it. 11 MR. RAGOMO: And you are asking us to 12 not reference preference. And my question back to 13 you, JeffeLee, would be, why is the Company so set 14 on this language? And if memory serves from the 15 prior bargaining session, I believe it was maybe Yuk 16 had referenced that counsel wants it in there. Is 17 it, one, that you want this or is it your counsel is 18 expecting this language? 19 MS. McCLAIN: In either case, the 20 proposal is the proposal, right? And for me, what I 21 am interested in doing is making sure that what we 22 have talked about is accurately and clearly 23 reflected in the -- you know, in this contract and 24 in this side letter. And you know, to protect the 25 Company to make sure that we are holding up our end Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 56 1 of the bargain and so are you. 2 So for me, you know, if we have talked 3 about the positions that can be permanently 4 contracted out, if we have agreed about, you know, 5 the Union's intent and the Company's position about 6 what jobs need to be -- you know contractors have to 7 be converted, things like that, in this negotiation, 8 I don't see how -- and I understand, you know, for 9 your point of view, 100 years of experiences or 10 rulings, you don't know what that says or whether or 11 not it would be favorable to you or against you. 12 Well, I don't know that either. 13 But what do I know is, you know, that I 14 wouldn't want an antiquated decision to impact -- 15 negatively impact what we have discussed for the 16 last two years. I want what we have discussed for 17 the last two years to be what I understand and held 18 accountable for, and what you understand and held 19 accountable to, and held us accountable to from now 20 on going forward. It is like you might sound 21 grandiose and fluffy, but that is my intent and why 22 I think, you know, we need the language here that 23 says, you know, we have been talking about this, we 24 are -- we have been -- you know, we are 25 understanding where we are, and for the term of the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 57 1 agreement and, you know, we have negotiated this 2 issue when it comes to contracting these issues or 3 how we use contractors in this way. You know, this 4 is what we have said, this is what we agreed to. 5 And this is what you are going hold me to account to 6 administer. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: But that is true. 8 This is a contract. This is contract negotiations. 9 This is a private agreement between two entities; 10 ExxonMobil and the Union. That is the most 11 important thing here. 12 MS. McCLAIN: Right. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: And unless something 14 is a part of that contract that is illegal, which I 15 don't think it is, then none of that stuff is going 16 to like annul all these agreements. That would make 17 contract negotiations a fruitless effort. I think 18 you probably understand that. It is pretty 19 fundamental. 20 So if you are worried that there is 21 some -- we are going to go into some Egyptian tomb 22 somewhere and uncover some case law that is going to 23 annul this, that is not going to happen. It is not 24 going to happen. 25 MS. McCLAIN: And right now we don't Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 58 1 even, you know -- I am just saying, just like you 2 don't know, right, right now there is other things 3 potentially. I hear what you are saying. You know, 4 Tom, I hear what you are saying. However, my 5 concern is, again, you know, making sure that this 6 reflects when we are entering into a contract, that 7 this reflects what we agreed to. And I appreciate 8 it. 9 MS. LOUIE: And, Steve, I just want to 10 respond to your comment about what I said before. I 11 think that my position was similar to what Tom said. 12 Right? Look, I am not a lawyer. I am not into 13 labor. I don't negotiate on a regular basis. So 14 yes, I would most certainly take languages to a 15 lawyer and it would be up to us to say, yes, do we 16 take the advice of our lawyer, just like you have 17 done. 18 Tom, you took that language to your 19 lawyer and used your lawyer's advice who said you 20 should not accept this language. So that is the 21 same thing. I don't think that is any different 22 than how you are behaving with getting legal counsel 23 outside than what I had mentioned previously. 24 Yes, I am going to seek the right thing 25 to put in the contract and make sure that it allows Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 59 1 me the flexibility that I seek, that it does not in 2 any way violate the agreement and also sets the 3 Company up for success. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yuk, it is your 5 proposal and your team wrote it and that is the key 6 difference here, is that it is the Company's 7 proposal and the Company wrote it. There is a big 8 difference between one side writing language and 9 putting it forward and the other side saying no. 10 There is a big difference between those two aspects. 11 The Company needs to justify -- the 12 burden of proof, the burden of ownership is on you 13 to justify why you need it. And the justification 14 we have heard is, "Well, counsel wants it. We don't 15 need it to run our business. Counsel wants it." 16 MS. McCLAIN: No. What we -- that is 17 not what she said. 18 MS. LOUIE: That is not what I said at 19 all. 20 MS. McCLAIN: And that is not what we 21 have talked about for the years that it has been in 22 our proposals, right, and what I have said. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I disagree. I think 24 you did say that. 25 MS. LOUIE: Again, we can agree to Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 60 1 disagree, but that is not what we have said. We are 2 getting advice and we are going put in the proposal 3 what gives us the flexibility that we need to do our 4 work, and it is going to be in the Company's best 5 interest to be able to stay competitive. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: What does the 7 arbitration language restrict you from doing? That 8 is a question you have never been able to answer. 9 What would not having it -- how would it ever 10 possibly limit your flexibility? You have never 11 been able to answer that question. And I do think 12 the burden of proof is on you because it is your 13 proposal. 14 MS. McCLAIN: So I think, you know, we 15 have talked about his for many, many times and, you 16 know, we are trying to understand again just where 17 you are, you know, just --- I know we are at time 18 contract. Sorry. Josh was just letting me know 19 that we are at time contract. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Time contract? 21 MS. McCLAIN: Sorry. Term of art for, 22 you know, I guess, when we are at our meeting time 23 to go over and just attest if it is okay if we 24 continue. That is all. Right? We contract 25 together on a time that we are going to meet. That Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 61 1 is all that means. 2 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. Got you. 3 MS. McCLAIN: I don't know. You guys 4 don't use that? 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I have never heard 6 that term before, but it is not important. 7 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. I am sorry. We 8 use it all the time. But it is okay if we continue 9 for right now? 10 MR. RAGOMO: Please. 11 MS. McCLAIN: I know Yuk has a back end 12 and I have a back end, but if we could just finish 13 out our conversation here and there is still a 14 couple more questions. 15 MR. RAGOMO: Sure. JeffeLee, before 16 you do move on, I would just like to say too, to the 17 point in terms of what we were discussing there, it 18 is -- it seems to me as though you keep saying that 19 we have been discussing this for two and a half, 20 three years now and we are going on and on. 21 So I will mention it again, as I did in 22 the first meeting then, why not have a mediator look 23 at this language and see what a mediator would bring 24 to it, because you are saying that, well, we have 25 been going through this and going through this, and Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 62 1 we have been having multiple conversations. Well, a 2 third-party may look at it both, the language and 3 see one side or the other. It is not a binding 4 thing. Is there something on the Company's side 5 that they are afraid to have a mediator look at it? 6 I am just trying to understand on my end why the 7 Company is so apprehensive to allowing a mediator to 8 look at these things. And you say, "Well, we are 9 still talking." You have made mention of the length 10 of the talks, and I see kind of looking at your 11 face, you look kind of strained when you make 12 mention of how long this has been going on. 13 So, again, to my point, what is the 14 apprehension of a mediator to look at the language? 15 MS. McCLAIN: If I am looking strained 16 right now, it is I am looking at the screen without 17 my blue screen glasses. I have broken them 18 unfortunately. But of course, you know, with having 19 discussions, and I don't want us to forget, and for 20 -- just mainly for the new team to know that we have 21 talked about these issues for a while and they have 22 not been a part of them. 23 MR. RAGOMO: But we understand that 24 because we are part of the membership, so we most 25 certainly understand that, whether there is new Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 63 1 individuals or not, we have been without the 2 contract for almost three years now. So we fully 3 understand and grasp that, but I still have not 4 heard a good reason as to why the Company is so 5 apprehensive to having a mediator. 6 MS. McCLAIN: Right. And for us, 7 again, we are -- we feel that it is best for us to 8 talk and work this out between the two of us where 9 we can and when we can and we still think that, you 10 know, we have hope that we can. So, you know, we 11 will take it under consideration. But for right 12 now, I think we hear you and where you are coming 13 from. So, you know, we will take it under 14 consideration, but right now we don't think that it 15 is necessary. 16 MR. RAGOMO: Well, I understand that 17 you hear us, but I don't know necessarily know that 18 you are listening because there are two different 19 things there, in my opinion. And I believe it is 20 one where it is -- I think we have been very clear 21 in how we have stated our position on the language 22 with the strike-through lines. So I think Tom and I 23 have tried to make it clear that the language is not 24 going to fly. It just doesn't meet anything that we 25 see is necessary to have in this contract. So we Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 64 1 are going to talk it to death. We are going to talk 2 it to death, but I don't believe that it is one that 3 we are going to move on. 4 MS. McCLAIN: And I think we have been 5 pretty clear about -- 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Well, the ultimate 7 twist of irony, JeffeLee, is that if you agree to, 8 if this proposal were ever to make it through with 9 your language, you can't look at the bargaining 10 transcripts where we talked to you about our 11 intentions until we were blue in the face, and we 12 have tried to answer all your questions to make you 13 more comfortable with it. This would be hurtful to 14 both of us. It really wouldn't help you. 15 MR. RAGOMO: It would handcuff your 16 side too. No one can look at precedence. 17 MS. McCLAIN: And when we -- 18 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We have been doing 19 this for 51 sessions. 20 MS. McCLAIN: Right. 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You are going to throw 22 all that away? We have talked about contracting 23 almost every time. 24 MS. McCLAIN: It seems that we have an 25 agreement, right? If we have an agreement that is Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 65 1 clear, then we are saying we are okay with that 2 because what we have is an agreement that you 3 understand, that we understand, and that we can move 4 forward with. And we don't need to, you know, refer 5 back to, you know, what somebody said three, four 6 years ago or two years ago. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We haven't been doing 8 for four years yet, thank God. 9 MS. McCLAIN: No, but you are talking 10 about conversations that we might have had or, you 11 know, whatever it might be, a past practice, right? 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: But that is like -- 13 right now we have -- I think we do agree -- like we 14 do have clear terms. Your fear is that the Union is 15 going to turn around and say something different in 16 the future. Right? I think that is what it is. 17 You might not express it like that. Like if you 18 don't have the transcripts, you are never going to 19 be able to say, "Well, the Union president and the 20 vice president said it works this way." 21 MS. McCLAIN: And if we have an 22 agreement that clearly states what we have said, 23 which is, you know, that second line said exactly 24 what you and Steve came back and said to us, and so 25 why shouldn't it be in there? Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 66 1 MR. STRASSER: It is pretty clear that 2 the language being presented, even if you guys don't 3 understand what it says and what it implies, so the 4 sheer level of apathy about just trying to avoid all 5 that is generally impressive from somebody who 6 claims to care about clarify. 7 MS. McCLAIN: I am sorry, Mike, I 8 didn't follow what you were saying when I made 9 mention of the -- you know, the second -- you 10 crossed out the second sentence, but yet we talked 11 about -- when I asked the question about it and you 12 came back and told me pretty much exactly what is 13 written there, right? You know, if that language 14 was in, we would have clarity and we wouldn't need 15 the transcript of today to talk about the intent. 16 That is where I am going. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Just to be clear, the 18 way the proposal is written, it tells you what you 19 can do. You don't need it. I think the Company's 20 fear is that there is going to be some 21 transformation down the line. And you are saying 22 that you want to make sure that the Union can never 23 make any changes, the Union can never, like blah, 24 blah, blah. Like, you want to lock in some 25 agreement that is permanent and binding and Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 67 1 arbitrators can't look at anything and nobody can 2 ever look at transcripts, nobody can ever look at 3 agreements. I really think it is a sign of hubris 4 -- to echo a little bit what Strasser said, it is a 5 sign of hubris that the Company thinks it is 6 entitled to something like that. We are not going 7 to do it. 8 Like, this proposal tells you what you 9 can do, JeffeLee. And we will answer your questions 10 until we are blue in the face about specific 11 examples where you are concerned that it is never 12 going to come up where you have to hire or fire or 13 whatever a contractor and you are afraid that we are 14 going to do something about it. It is telling you 15 what you need to do. 16 I really think that the sentence, that 17 any arbitrator sentence, it is not needed to 18 actually implement the proposal as it is written. 19 It really isn't. I really think it is very clear, 20 and I think I have actually made it much clearer by 21 eliminating language in there because the Company's 22 intent is for this to stand on its own. 23 MS. McCLAIN: Correct. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So some of the 25 Company's own language was that any job family for Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 68 1 which it has proposed to permanently contract, that 2 is speaking to conversations we have had prior. And 3 so, like, I have removed that and I made it much 4 clearer because that was what the Company was 5 telling me I needed to do. You need to make this 6 clear to stand up on its own, and that is what I 7 did. 8 MS. McCLAIN: And my point was that we 9 need to, in addition -- you know, to agreeing on 10 what we have said and having this stand alone, it 11 needs to say -- you are pointing out that it needs 12 say what the Company can do. And that is true, we 13 want that because you wrote that in there. But it 14 also needs to be clear on where there is confusion 15 about things that the Company doesn't have to do or 16 points of clarification that we have agreed to. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Like what, though? 18 Like what? Like, for example? 19 MS. McCLAIN: The second sentence that 20 is there, right, that you have crossed out, that we 21 have talked about, that you have answered. Right? 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: No. I just -- no. I 23 think it does say -- it says -- it answers your 24 question. I basically read it back to you when I 25 answered your question. It says that there are job Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 69 1 families that are listed here, Mechanics, Materials 2 & Services Coordinator, et cetera. Any job families 3 that are not listed here are addressed by the first 4 sentence. It is how it is written. I think it the 5 English language stands on its own. I really do. I 6 believe in this proposal. 7 MS. McCLAIN: Sometimes there is a lot 8 of clarity that is necessary and, you know, 9 sometimes the English language isn't as clear as we 10 hope it. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So you want to set up 12 a scenario -- that is crazy though. You want to set 13 up a scenario where we are going to agree to a 14 proposal, an arbitrator that you think is going to 15 read it and not understand it, and then they are not 16 going to be able to look at anything else to 17 understand it. That is crazy. 18 MS. McCLAIN: And that is not what I 19 said. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That is what you are 21 saying. 22 MS. McCLAIN: No. What I said -- 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is not clear enough 24 so we need this other language. That is crazy. 25 MS. McCLAIN: There is information that Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 70 1 you have struck out that I think we should -- that 2 was part of our Company proposals that we believe 3 gave us clarity. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So, are you telling me 5 that the further duration of this agreement sentence 6 is very important to the Company? 7 MS. McCLAIN: I am not saying anything 8 right now. I am asking -- we were asking questions 9 about that. Right? And you know, you needed time 10 to get a caucus and we have questions about it. I 11 mean, we have your answer about it. 12 So obviously, we have more to discuss 13 on this point. We had some other questions, but -- 14 what does your availability look like? 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We can meet tomorrow. 16 MS. McCLAIN: We will take a look at 17 our calendars and we will let you know. 18 Rita, we will let you know. 19 And we will coordinate with Josh. If 20 you can give Josh a date or Josh will give you our 21 dates. 22 MR. BRYANT: That is fine. 23 MS. McCLAIN: Let us know what works. 24 MR. RAGOMO: Speaking on our end, we 25 are available any day, every day going forward. So Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 71 1 we will be ready to come back to the table at any 2 time for another bargaining session. Did you want 3 to ask any of the other questions, JeffeLee, or do 4 you have anything to do address? 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Anything we can work 6 on that would be helpful, yes. 7 MR. RAGOMO: Right. If there is 8 something that we can help give you more clarity on, 9 we would most certainly be willing to try and help 10 you with that. 11 MS. McCLAIN: Sure. We will send you 12 an e-mail, you know, if there are any further 13 questions we want to talk through, okay? 14 MR. RAGOMO: Okay. Great. We will 15 look forward to that e-mail then because you did say 16 you had a few more questions. If you get those over 17 to us, either you or Josh, Tom and I would be happy 18 to go through them and try and clarify everything we 19 possibly can. 20 MS. McCLAIN: Sure. Okay. 21 MR. RAGOMO: All right. 22 MS. McCLAIN: Thanks for the time. 23 (Remote negotiations concluded at 12:17 24 p.m.) 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 72 1 2 CERTIFICATE 3 4 I, RITA GARDNER, Notary Public of the 5 State of New Jersey and a Certified Court Reporter, 6 do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and 7 accurate transcript of the remote testimony as taken 8 stenographically by and before me to the best of my 9 ability at the time and on the date hereinbefore set 10 forth. 11 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a 12 relative nor employee nor attorney nor counsel of any 13 of the parties to this action, and that I am neither 14 a relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, 15 and that I am not financially interested in the 16 action. 17 18 19 Notary Public of the State of New Jersey 20 21 Dated: March 12, 2021 22 23 24 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 $ $250,000 [1] - 14:7 $50,000 [2] - 7:19, 7:22 1 1 [6] - 7:16, 7:17, 8:2, 11:4, 11:5, 11:10 1.5 [1] - 11:5 100 [3] - 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12:5 ill [1] - 34:23 ill-afford [1] - 34:23 illegal [1] - 57:13 illustrative [1] - 49:23 immediate [4] - 9:16, 11:20, 22:15, 53:6 immediately [4] - 8:4, 10:13, 21:14, 29:17 impact [2] - 56:13, 56:14 impasse [9] - 4:13, 31:10, 31:11, 32:6, 32:9, 32:12, 33:16, 33:19, 33:21 implement [3] - 32:6, 33:17, 67:17 implementation [1] - 31:11 implemented [6] - 4:13, 31:5, 31:15, 31:24, 33:6 implementing [1] - 19:16 implication [1] - 9:5 implied [1] - 8:10 implies [1] - 66:2 important [7] - 4:20, 5:18, 8:23, 18:18, 57:10, 61:5, 70:5 importantly [1] - 18:16 impressive [1] - 66:4 include [2] - 13:23, 45:10 included [2] - 5:9, 9:23 includes [2] - 41:21, 46:13 including [4] - 11:15, 19:8, 19:17, 55:9 inconsistent [2] - 28:2, 28:12 incorrectly [1] - 29:4 increase [3] - 19:18, 21:15, 42:4 INDEPENDENT [1] - 1:13 individuals [3] - 35:1, 35:6, 62:25 industry [2] - 11:17, 29:19 inflated [1] - 6:22 information [11] - 3:5, 3:12, 27:11, 28:5, 43:5, 43:20, 43:21, 44:19, 45:6, 45:8, 69:24 informational [1] - 44:20 insult [1] - 35:1 intent [17] - 25:3, 34:1, 37:19, 46:8, 46:16, 49:4, 49:5, 49:9, 50:5, 51:25, 52:23, 53:17, 54:22, 56:4, 56:20, 66:14, 67:21 intentions [1] - 64:10 interest [4] - 9:23, 23:3, 42:12, 60:4 interested [2] - 55:20, 72:15 interject [1] - 43:19 interruption [1] - 16:22 introduce [1] - 2:6 introduced [1] - 16:16 invested [1] - 35:17 involved [3] - 28:23, 29:7, 29:13 irony [1] - 64:6 issue [2] - 52:21, 57:1 issues [2] - 57:1, 62:20 item [1] - 41:25 items [1] - 19:17 itself [2] - 13:17, 15:9 J January [4] - 7:17, 8:2, 49:22, 49:24 Jeffe [1] - 40:13 JeffeLee [10] - 16:6, 20:3, 27:5, 32:9, 37:24, 55:12, 61:14, 64:6, 67:8, 71:2 JEFFELEE [1] - 1:11 Jersey [2] - 72:5, 72:19 job [19] - 5:12, 6:10, 6:13, 6:20, 6:22, 12:15, 12:19, 34:2, 34:3, 35:6, 41:15, 41:18, 44:14, 44:23, 44:24, 46:12, 67:24, 68:24, 69:1 jobs [10] - 6:18, 13:1, 28:1, 29:4, 44:5, 46:14, 48:2, 48:4, 48:20, 56:5 jointly [2] - 10:7, 24:25 Josh [5] - 60:17, 70:18, 70:19, 71:16 JOSH [1] - 1:12 jump [1] - 3:2 June [2] - 11:4, 11:10 justification [2] - 6:16, 59:12 justify [3] - 28:17, 59:10, 59:12 K keep [3] - 43:15, 44:2, 61:17 key [1] - 59:4 kind [5] - 38:18, 40:8, 47:18, 62:9, 62:10 know.. [1] - 39:8 knowledge [1] - 53:10 known [3] - 7:13, 13:15, 29:12 knows [1] - 2:7 L Lab [2] - 6:4, 38:4 lab [1] - 19:16 LABOR [1] - 1:12 labor [5] - 53:12, 54:5, 54:9, 54:24, 58:12 LABORATORY [1] - 1:13 labs [1] - 18:10 lack [1] - 17:12 language [39] - 3:25, 9:3, 10:17, 13:10, 13:17, 14:22, 14:25, 23:21, 25:4, 42:18, 45:17, 45:23, 46:11, 47:22, 51:12, 52:11, 52:13, 52:19, 52:24, 55:13, 55:17, 56:21, 58:17, 58:19, 59:7, 60:6, 61:22, 62:1, 62:13, 63:20, 63:22, 64:8, 66:1, 66:12, 67:20, 67:24, 69:4, 69:8, 69:23 languages [1] - 58:13 large [1] - 2:23 last [8] - 5:7, 12:11, 26:11, 26:20, 26:24, 40:24, 56:15, 56:16 lastly [1] - 15:10 law [6] - 53:9, 53:10, 54:4, 54:6, 54:25, 57:21 lawyer [5] - 53:9, 58:11, 58:14, 58:15, 58:18 lawyer's [1] - 58:18 layoffs [2] - 13:5, 51:10 leadership [1] - 42:19 least [3] - 27:24, 31:6, 51:22 leave [4] - 3:11, 13:3, 34:20, 37:13 LEBRON [2] - 1:16, 2:13 Lebron [1] - 2:13 left [1] - 42:1 legal [5] - 14:25, 15:24, 32:13, 32:25, 58:21 legislation [2] - 16:15, 16:17 length [5] - 10:21, 14:8, 24:24, 42:2, 62:8 lengthy [1] - 9:12 lens [1] - 16:11 less [1] - 21:20 lesser [1] - 37:2 letter [6] - 14:10, 14:13, 14:15, 19:20, 46:1, 55:23 letters [3] - 14:12, 52:24, 55:8 letting [1] - 60:17 level [13] - 5:14, 5:19, 6:10, 34:6, 36:2, 36:17, 36:25, 38:8, 38:11, 38:19, 39:1, 39:3, 66:3 levels [4] - 6:3, 6:14, 34:2, 35:11 leverage [1] - 17:12 lifted [1] - 8:2 lifts [1] - 10:11 limit [2] - 15:24, 60:9 limiting [2] - 54:7, 54:8 limits [2] - 14:25, 15:1 line [5] - 18:6, 25:8, 44:2, 65:22, 66:20 lines [1] - 63:21 listed [6] - 14:15, 28:1, 28:2, 41:15, 68:25, 69:2 listening [1] - 63:17 loan [1] - 23:4 locally [1] - 29:7 lock [1] - 66:23 lockdown [1] - 18:25 long-term [5] - 6:1, 18:11, 35:8, 37:11 longest [1] - 36:18 longing [1] - 35:8 look [27] - 6:1, 14:14, 14:16, 15:2, 27:24, 36:5, 36:16, 39:13, 40:4, 54:8, 58:11, 61:21, 62:1, 62:4, 62:7, 62:10, 62:13, 64:8, 64:15, 66:25, 67:1, 69:15, 70:13, 70:15, 71:14 looked [6] - 24:6, 28:25, 30:23, 37:21, 38:23, 53:14 looking [13] - 8:17, 16:10, 16:12, 20:12, 22:15, 25:5, 37:11, 49:2, 54:23, 55:2, 62:9, 62:14, 62:15 lose [5] - 34:23, 35:4, 35:14, 35:16 losing [4] - 26:13, 26:14, 26:15, 34:21 loss [1] - 26:21 lost [1] - 35:2 Louie [1] - 19:22 LOUIE [13] - 1:12, 36:14, 37:14, 44:6, 44:16, 45:1, 45:12, 45:15, 45:20, 48:17, 58:8, 59:17, 59:24 low [4] - 5:19, 5:25, 6:9, 18:8 lower [5] - 12:9, 29:21, 34:6, 35:2, 37:6 lowest [2] - 38:3, 38:8 LT [2] - 19:6, 19:9 Lubes [1] - 19:6 M ma'am [1] - 37:15 made-up [1] - 49:22 MADIARA [2] - 1:17, 2:22 Madiara [1] - 2:22 mail [2] - 71:11, 71:14 main [1] - 20:12 maintain [2] - 16:21, 34:5 maintaining [4] - 4:14, 22:17, 23:15, 24:9 Maintenance [1] - 44:15 maintenance [1] - 12:21 mal [1] - 54:22 mal-intent [1] - 54:22 malicious [1] - 53:17 management [5] - 19:25, 37:10, 46:22, 46:23, 49:18 MANAGER [2] - 1:11, 1:12 manufacturing [1] - 19:17 map [2] - 5:10, 6:13 March [9] - 1:5, 4:18, 7:10, 18:4, 49:25, 50:4, 50:9, 50:24, 72:21 market [8] - 6:3, 34:20, 38:24, 39:10, 39:13, 39:22, 40:3, 40:6 Match [5] - 7:4, 7:8, 7:10, 8:19, 23:9 match [11] - 7:15, 7:18, 7:21, 7:23, 8:1, 8:4, 8:15, 9:4, 9:12, 9:22, 34:1 matches [1] - 25:25 matching [1] - 29:5 Material [4] - 12:20, 41:16, 44:14, 46:13 Materials [1] - 68:25 matter [2] - 34:17, 54:19 McCLAIN [101] - 1:11, 2:2, 3:4, 3:7, 3:13, 3:19, 20:7, 20:15, 21:4, 21:10, 21:18, 22:1, 22:10, 22:14, 23:14, 23:25, 24:15, 24:19, 25:19, 26:25, 27:9, 27:14, 27:22, 29:25, 30:3, 30:8, 30:14, 30:21, 31:2, 32:2, 32:10, 32:15, 32:18, 33:8, 33:13, 33:22, 35:23, 37:16, 38:21, 39:11, 39:25, 40:2, 40:10, 40:14, 41:10, 41:23, 42:10, 42:16, 43:1, 43:4, 43:14, 43:17, 43:23, 45:21, 46:23, 47:3, 47:17, 48:10, 48:14, 49:1, 49:14, 49:17, 50:4, 50:14, 50:20, 51:21, 52:7, 53:4, 54:20, 55:18, 57:11, 57:24, 59:15, 59:19, 60:13, 60:20, 61:2, 61:6, 61:10, 62:14, 63:5, 64:3, 64:16, 64:19, 64:23, 65:8, 65:20, 66:6, 67:22, 68:7, 68:18, 69:6, 69:17, 69:21, 69:24, 70:6, 70:15, 70:22, 71:10, 71:19, 71:21 mean [11] - 20:18, 23:19, 23:22, 25:5, 29:15, 42:7, 42:14, 45:17, 53:17, 54:23, 70:10 meaning [1] - 52:15 means [1] - 60:25 meant [1] - 42:23 Mechanics [4] - 34:18, 41:16, 44:14, 68:25 mechanics [1] - 12:20 median [1] - 28:17 mediator [6] - 61:21, 61:22, 62:4, 62:6, 62:13, 63:4 meet [8] - 2:4, 8:18, 9:16, 16:3, 16:22, 60:24, 63:23, 70:14 meeting [5] - 15:16, 17:24, 31:19, 60:21, 61:21 meets [2] - 14:4, 16:7 membership [4] - 8:16, 18:21, 54:12, 62:23 memory [1] - 55:13 mention [4] - 61:20, 62:8, 62:11, 66:8 mentioned [2] - 20:3, 58:22 met [1] - 22:11 methodology [1] - 29:2 Michael [1] - 2:17 mICHAEL [1] - 1:17 MICHAEL [1] - 1:18 mid [1] - 39:3 mid-level [1] - 39:3 middle [2] - 38:11, 38:19 might [6] - 3:24, 49:21, 56:19, 65:9, 65:10, 65:16 Mike [2] - 2:20, 66:6 minds [1] - 31:19 minutes [1] - 41:11 mistake [2] - 5:17, 6:8 modified [1] - 15:12 modify [2] - 8:9, 45:10 MOLINA [2] - 1:17, 2:17 Molina [1] - 2:17 monthly [1] - 44:10 months [2] - 7:21, 22:4 morning [2] - 2:1, 2:2 most [8] - 12:4, 16:16, 17:19, 21:21, 57:9, 58:13, 62:23, 71:8 mostly [1] - 5:5 mouth [1] - 4:22 move [9] - 6:16, 10:1, 10:2, 12:12, 17:14, 20:1, 61:15, 64:2, 65:2 moved [7] - 11:25, 12:10, 26:10, 26:19, 26:23, 34:7, 49:19 movement [2] - 11:24, 26:17 moves [1] - 51:13 moving [8] - 4:17, 5:4, 11:1, 13:9, 16:23, 20:25, 26:12, 31:23 Moving [1] - 14:6 MR [128] - 2:1, 2:3, 2:11, 2:13, 2:15, 2:17, 2:19, 2:20, 2:22, 2:24, 3:6, 3:9, 3:14, 3:22, 17:4, 20:14, 20:20, 21:8, 21:12, 21:20, 22:7, 22:13, 22:22, 23:16, 23:20, 24:11, 24:17, 25:3, 26:4, 27:5, 27:8, 27:13, 27:18, 29:15, 30:1, 30:7, 30:12, 30:13, 30:17, 31:1, 31:12, 32:8, 32:12, 32:16, 33:3, 33:11, 33:19, 34:16, 36:23, 37:15, 37:24, 39:9, 39:20, 40:1, 40:7, 40:12, 41:6, 41:11, 41:14, 42:7, 42:13, 42:15, 42:22, 43:2, 43:13, 43:16, 43:22, 43:24, 44:12, 44:17, 44:20, 44:22, 45:7, 45:13, 45:19, 46:21, 46:24, 47:4, 47:25, 48:3, 48:5, 48:7, 48:11, 48:18, 49:12, 49:16, 50:2, 50:3, 50:11, 50:17, 50:23, 52:3, 55:6, 55:10, 57:6, 57:12, 59:3, 59:22, 60:5, 60:19, 61:1, 61:4, 61:9, 61:14, 62:22, 63:15, 64:5, 64:14, 64:17, 64:20, 65:6, 65:11, 65:25, 66:16, 67:23, 68:16, 68:21, 69:10, 69:19, 69:22, 70:3, 70:14, 70:21, 70:23, 71:4, 71:6, 71:13, 71:20 MS [112] - 2:2, 3:4, 3:7, 3:13, 3:19, 20:7, 20:15, 21:4, 21:10, 21:18, 22:1, 22:10, 22:14, 23:14, 23:25, 24:15, 24:19, 25:19, 26:25, 27:9, 27:14, 27:22, 29:25, 30:3, 30:8, 30:14, 30:21, 31:2, 32:2, 32:10, 32:15, 32:18, 33:8, 33:13, 33:22, 35:23, 36:14, 37:14, 37:16, 38:21, 39:11, 39:25, 40:2, 40:10, 40:14, 41:10, 41:23, 42:10, 42:16, 43:1, 43:4, 43:14, 43:17, 43:23, 44:6, 44:16, 45:1, 45:12, 45:15, 45:20, 45:21, 46:23, 47:3, 47:17, 48:10, 48:14, 48:17, 49:1, 49:14, 49:17, 50:4, 50:14, 50:20, 51:21, 52:7, 53:4, 54:20, 55:18, 57:11, 57:24, 58:8, 59:15, 59:17, 59:19, 59:24, 60:13, 60:20, 61:2, 61:6, 61:10, 62:14, 63:5, 64:3, 64:16, 64:19, 64:23, 65:8, 65:20, 66:6, 67:22, 68:7, 68:18, 69:6, 69:17, 69:21, 69:24, 70:6, 70:15, 70:22, 71:10, 71:19, 71:21 multiple [8] - 4:1, 6:5, 11:13, 15:14, 30:5, 31:21, 53:19, 61:25 mutual [1] - 15:12 mutually [2] - 4:25, 42:18 N name [1] - 38:20 named [1] - 41:4 names [2] - 2:7, 27:15 national [1] - 18:25 necessarily [1] - 63:16 necessary [11] - 13:24, 18:18, 34:5, 34:12, 34:13, 36:9, 42:21, 52:23, 63:14, 63:24, 69:7 need [27] - 2:8, 3:11, 3:17, 14:23, 15:7, 15:8, 24:9, 32:17, 33:21, 35:10, 36:24, 43:5, 43:10, 50:7, 56:5, 56:21, 59:12, 59:14, 60:2, 65:3, 66:13, 66:18, 67:14, 68:4, 68:8, 69:23 needed [5] - 30:24, 42:5, 67:16, 68:4, 70:8 needs [17] - 8:14, 9:17, 12:17, 14:4, 15:23, 16:7, 16:22, 17:23, 22:12, 22:24, 40:22, 41:21, 59:10, 68:10, 68:13 negatively [2] - 9:8, 56:14 negotiate [2] - 10:22, 58:12 negotiated [2] - 8:10, 56:25 negotiation [1] - 56:6 Negotiations [1] - 1:4 negotiations [8] - 10:8, 25:15, 25:17, 30:19, 31:18, 57:7, 57:16, 71:22 negotiator's [1] - 4:22 never [12] - 37:25, 38:1, 38:5, 38:9, 38:14, 60:7, 60:9, 61:4, 65:17, 66:21, 66:22, 67:10 new [6] - 2:4, 16:15, 28:10, 49:20, 62:19, 62:24 New [2] - 72:5, 72:19 news [1] - 9:9 next [8] - 10:23, 14:19, 15:6, 22:3, 25:17, 40:15, 41:25, 43:18 nobody [2] - 66:25, 67:1 non [2] - 8:7, 11:8 non-benefits [1] - 11:8 non-precedent [1] - 8:7 none [1] - 57:14 norm [1] - 21:16 Notary [2] - 72:4, 72:19 nothing [4] - 24:13, 30:12, 38:17, 44:18 notice [1] - 44:10 notification [4] - 14:6, 42:3, 42:19, 43:20 notifications [2] - 42:12, 45:10 notified [1] - 45:14 notify [1] - 42:8 number [3] - 7:15, 7:20, 21:19 Number [1] - 7:25 numbers [1] - 49:15 O object [1] - 45:8 objection [9] - 12:19, 44:7, 44:13, 44:23, 45:3, 46:12, 47:1, 47:15, 48:21 obligated [3] - 46:2, 50:25, 51:18 obligation [6] - 11:20, 21:23, 22:19, 23:11, 51:2 obligations [7] - 8:9, 8:19, 9:21, 9:22, 13:21, 13:22, 23:2 obviously [1] - 70:11 October [1] - 7:16 offer [3] - 19:15, 20:6, 23:17 offered [1] - 29:20 offering [2] - 19:8, 24:13 old [1] - 53:1 once [2] - 22:24, 33:14 one [21] - 7:15, 11:4, 18:6, 18:22, 22:3, 25:25, 26:1, 28:15, 35:11, 40:17, 46:14, 50:12, 50:19, 55:3, 55:16, 59:7, 62:2, 63:19, 64:1, 64:15 ones [1] - 44:25 open [2] - 3:21, 44:3 operations [1] - 12:21 OPERATIONS [1] - 1:12 Operations [1] - 44:15 opinion [1] - 63:18 opinions [1] - 51:24 opportunities [2] - 6:2, 19:12 opportunity [1] - 19:1 organize [1] - 41:7 ourselves [2] - 2:6, 36:21 outlined [1] - 55:3 outside [1] - 58:22 overall [1] - 12:9 overthinking [1] - 48:19 own [9] - 5:15, 11:16, 13:4, 13:14, 15:22, 67:21, 67:24, 68:5, 69:4 ownership [1] - 59:11 P p.m [1] - 71:23 package [5] - 4:4, 20:13, 20:22, 21:1, 21:3 page [1] - 3:23 paid [2] - 11:9 paired [1] - 38:5 pandemic [1] - 18:25 paper [2] - 31:13, 32:1 paragraph [4] - 13:8, 14:19, 15:6, 53:20 part [14] - 5:17, 6:8, 15:19, 20:22, 20:25, 29:11, 32:4, 32:23, 37:10, 41:4, 57:13, 62:21, 62:23, 70:1 particular [5] - 11:16, 21:5, 21:16, 23:2, 50:6 particularly [2] - 4:25, 34:6 parties [4] - 8:6, 10:10, 15:13, 72:13 partly [1] - 53:21 partners [5] - 18:9, 19:4, 19:7, 19:10, 37:12 party [1] - 62:1 pass [2] - 17:10, 17:17 passed [2] - 3:25, 21:1 passes [1] - 8:12 passing [1] - 22:25 past [7] - 9:23, 16:17, 28:22, 40:23, 42:20, 47:7, 65:10 path [1] - 10:24 PAUL [1] - 1:17 Paul [1] - 2:22 Paulsboro [1] - 34:8 pay [8] - 5:18, 6:9, 11:3, 11:17, 11:18, 34:19, 38:10, 39:22 paying [1] - 21:14 payment [1] - 11:8 people [17] - 2:4, 5:19, 5:21, 5:22, 5:24, 5:25, 6:1, 8:20, 8:24, 9:2, 9:3, 21:21, 26:15, 26:16, 35:6, 35:18, 36:22 people's [2] - 8:23, 36:16 percent [18] - 7:18, 7:22, 7:23, 9:15, 11:5, 11:6, 12:3, 21:11, 26:3, 26:6, 26:7, 42:24 percentages [2] - 26:10, 26:23 perfect [1] - 30:17 perform [1] - 35:6 period [7] - 4:19, 7:16, 7:19, 9:12, 10:18, 23:23, 35:14 permanent [2] - 23:13, 66:24 permanently [3] - 50:6, 56:2, 67:25 person [5] - 28:7, 28:8, 28:9, 28:13, 51:13 personal [1] - 54:18 pertaining [1] - 13:5 picked [1] - 22:5 picture [2] - 35:21, 37:11 piece [1] - 31:13 pieces [1] - 29:13 Plan [7] - 7:4, 7:8, 8:10, 8:19, 21:6, 23:4, 23:9 planning [1] - 37:1 point [15] - 21:9, 22:22, 29:16, 30:8, 33:1, 33:16, 33:23, 34:24, 35:24, 51:4, 56:8, 61:16, 62:12, 68:7, 70:12 pointed [1] - 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55:23 provide [7] - 19:4, 19:9, 37:16, 37:20, 40:4, 45:5, 52:1 provided [7] - 29:1, 29:9, 30:11, 33:25, 34:3, 40:5 provides [1] - 51:22 provision [1] - 25:1 provisions [4] - 13:3, 13:4, 14:10, 17:17 Public [2] - 72:4, 72:19 pull [3] - 3:16, 7:6, 28:4 pulling [1] - 3:19 purpose [1] - 51:5 purposes [1] - 44:21 put [5] - 17:7, 32:7, 32:22, 58:24, 60:1 putting [1] - 59:8 Q qualification [2] - 37:8, 37:21 qualifications [5] - 29:6, 34:3, 36:6, 38:2, 38:6 qualified [4] - 34:22, 35:5, 37:2, 37:22 quality [2] - 19:5, 19:8 questions [21] - 20:8, 27:2, 27:10, 30:9, 30:24, 40:11, 40:16, 40:25, 52:4, 52:9, 52:16, 53:3, 61:13, 64:11, 67:8, 70:7, 70:9, 70:12, 71:2, 71:12, 71:15 quick [1] - 41:25 quicker [1] - 19:10 quickly [2] - 2:6, 35:15 quite [9] - 5:24, 9:12, 9:18, 9:19, 17:25, 19:24, 25:10, 31:7, 34:22 quote/unquote [1] - 38:3 R R&D [1] - 1:12 Ragomo [3] - 2:11, 41:12, 50:21 RAGOMO [27] - 1:14, 2:11, 17:4, 23:20, 24:11, 30:13, 30:17, 31:1, 34:16, 36:23, 37:15, 40:7, 42:15, 44:20, 48:3, 48:7, 50:3, 55:10, 61:9, 61:14, 62:22, 63:15, 64:14, 70:23, 71:6, 71:13, 71:20 rate [14] - 5:25, 6:4, 6:9, 35:2, 35:14, 36:1, 36:15, 36:19, 37:6, 37:22, 37:23, 38:3, 38:5, 38:10 rates [2] - 36:11, 39:22 rather [2] - 23:5, 35:15 ratified [5] - 11:7, 47:6, 47:13, 50:24, 51:2 ratify [2] - 49:7, 49:25 raw [2] - 26:9, 26:23 re [2] - 8:18, 13:5 Re [2] - 12:22 re-meet [1] - 8:18 re-promotions [1] - 13:5 reach [1] - 46:20 reached [1] - 7:14 read [5] - 7:8, 10:3, 18:5, 68:23, 69:14 ready [2] - 30:15, 70:25 real [1] - 16:8 really [18] - 5:16, 6:19, 10:25, 13:24, 17:9, 23:10, 32:17, 33:21, 42:1, 43:4, 43:10, 49:12, 64:13, 67:2, 67:15, 67:18, 69:4 reason [5] - 2:8, 6:15, 21:5, 21:16, 63:3 recalling [1] - 13:6 receipt [1] - 28:23 received [2] - 9:7, 40:7 recently [1] - 36:20 recessed [1] - 30:19 record [3] - 22:23, 27:21, 51:5 reduced [5] - 7:18, 9:14, 21:23 reemphasize [1] - 15:21 refer [1] - 65:3 reference [2] - 18:4, 55:11 referenced [3] - 15:23, 17:24, 55:15 references [3] - 13:11, 13:12, 13:18 referencing [1] - 17:6 reflected [1] - 55:22 reflects [2] - 58:5, 58:6 Refund [8] - 10:2, 10:4, 10:5, 10:16, 10:17, 24:23, 25:6, 25:11 regarding [9] - 6:18, 12:14, 13:7, 13:20, 16:2, 16:10, 39:22, 51:13, 53:13 regards [2] - 14:16, 19:22 regression [1] - 5:15 regressive [1] - 6:10 regular [1] - 58:12 rehire [4] - 13:21, 47:7, 47:22, 50:8 rehiring [1] - 46:18 reinstate [2] - 8:4, 10:13 relation [1] - 54:9 relations [2] - 53:12, 54:5 relative [4] - 12:16, 41:19, 72:12, 72:14 rely [1] - 52:25 remain [2] - 13:6, 15:11 remember [2] - 38:24, 39:17 remembering [1] - 26:5 remote [2] - 30:19, 72:7 Remote [1] - 71:22 REMOTELY [1] - 1:7 remove [1] - 51:6 removed [4] - 7:22, 9:24, 23:6, 68:2 removing [1] - 52:13 repayments [1] - 23:4 rephrase [1] - 49:13 replace [1] - 46:3 report [1] - 28:18 Reporter [1] - 72:5 represent [1] - 36:12 request [2] - 10:10, 27:11 requested [1] - 29:7 requirement [2] - 6:22, 38:7 requirements [1] - 6:20 requires [1] - 13:14 requisite [1] - 36:10 Research [19] - 5:11, 7:12, 19:3, 28:16, 28:19, 34:1, 36:15, 36:19, 36:25, 39:1, 39:2, 39:3, 39:16, 40:25, 41:1, 41:2, 41:21 RESEARCH [1] - 1:10 resilience [1] - 19:2 resolves [1] - 14:12 respond [1] - 58:9 response [8] - 3:4, 20:4, 23:3, 39:19, 53:4, 53:6, 53:8, 54:18 responsiveness [1] - 19:6 rest [6] - 4:11, 4:16, 5:3, 24:4, 31:14, 44:24 restricting [1] - 53:24 restricts [1] - 60:6 resumed [1] - 30:20 retain [2] - 13:1, 51:10 retire [1] - 13:1 retirement [1] - 8:24 retiring [1] - 26:16 retroactive [1] - 11:4 retroactivity [1] - 12:7 return [1] - 9:6 revert [1] - 7:21 rights [7] - 14:25, 15:1, 17:20, 51:11, 52:20, 53:23, 54:7 Rita [3] - 2:7, 27:17, 70:17 RITA [1] - 72:4 rulings [1] - 56:9 run [2] - 14:23, 59:14 S safe [1] - 19:21 safety [2] - 19:18 salary [1] - 21:21 sample [3] - 46:22, 46:23, 49:17 savings [1] - 22:16 Savings [7] - 7:4, 7:8, 8:10, 8:19, 21:6, 23:4, 23:9 scenario [2] - 69:11, 69:12 scheduled [1] - 19:8 schedules [1] - 11:3 school [2] - 53:9, 54:4 screen [5] - 3:18, 3:20, 7:5, 62:15, 62:16 SEBASCO [2] - 1:15, 2:15 Sebasco [1] - 2:15 second [7] - 7:5, 28:15, 41:4, 65:22, 66:8, 66:9, 68:18 SECRETARY [1] - 1:15 secretary [1] - 2:16 section [2] - 25:7, 31:15 sector [1] - 18:10 see [15] - 11:11, 24:22, 25:24, 27:16, 31:9, 40:18, 42:1, 45:22, 47:12, 52:2, 56:7, 61:22, 62:2, 62:9, 63:24 seeing [2] - 35:21, 46:10 seek [2] - 58:23, 58:25 seeking [1] - 45:5 seem [1] - 3:24 senate [3] - 16:14, 16:16, 17:11 send [6] - 27:11, 27:15, 27:19, 43:3, 71:10 Senior [5] - 5:11, 12:22, 12:23, 38:16, 39:8 sense [5] - 10:21, 23:13, 26:21, 35:9, 47:8 sentence [13] - 13:20, 14:11, 41:17, 53:15, 53:20, 54:6, 55:7, 66:9, 67:15, 67:16, 68:18, 69:3, 70:4 serious [1] - 17:9 seriously [2] - 9:18, 16:19 serves [1] - 55:13 service [1] - 29:3 Services [7] - 12:20, 12:22, 12:23, 41:16, 44:14, 46:14, 69:1 session [2] - 55:14, 71:1 sessions [1] - 64:18 set [8] - 32:24, 34:7, 36:21, 38:2, 55:12, 69:10, 69:11, 72:9 sets [1] - 59:1 setting [3] - 8:7, 32:13, 37:4 settle [1] - 53:24 settled [1] - 16:20 seven [2] - 7:21, 7:23 shall [8] - 7:15, 7:18, 7:21, 7:22, 8:4, 8:8, 10:13, 14:10 share [3] - 3:18, 3:20, 3:23 sharing [1] - 7:5 sheer [1] - 66:3 shop [1] - 35:15 short [7] - 12:17, 19:11, 35:9, 37:9, 40:22, 41:20, 54:3 short-sighted [2] - 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37:8, 39:23, 41:22 technologies [1] - 18:8 Technology [1] - 19:6 Techs [6] - 34:1, 35:3, 36:19, 37:3, 40:25, 41:2 temporary [7] - 9:3, 9:25, 10:6, 15:15, 25:13, 25:18, 42:23 tentative [5] - 4:3, 4:10, 5:3, 20:17, 20:21 term [17] - 6:1, 11:20, 12:17, 17:12, 18:11, 35:8, 37:11, 40:22, 41:20, 42:23, 46:2, 49:6, 49:8, 56:24, 60:20, 61:5 terminated [2] - 13:2, 23:23 terms [13] - 2:5, 9:21, 11:24, 13:20, 14:15, 17:5, 17:25, 26:9, 26:22, 35:7, 53:24, 61:16, 65:13 test [3] - 42:6, 43:5, 43:9 testimony [1] - 72:7 testing [1] - 19:17 text [1] - 30:15 themselves [2] - 28:21, 35:15 thinks [1] - 67:4 third [2] - 5:14, 62:1 third-party [1] - 62:1 Thomas [1] - 2:10 THOMAS [2] - 1:15, 1:16 thoughts [3] - 41:8, 42:21, 43:9 three [14] - 11:12, 11:22, 12:8, 21:10, 22:20, 22:21, 26:1, 33:15, 33:16, 35:11, 38:7, 61:19, 63:1, 65:4 throughout [2] - 6:5, 53:11 throw [1] - 64:20 Thursday [1] - 1:5 tied [2] - 6:23, 24:24 tier [1] - 38:12 tighter [1] - 11:20 timeframe [1] - 19:11 titles [1] - 38:23 today [2] - 49:18, 66:14 together [3] - 4:24, 18:9, 60:24 Tom [13] - 2:19, 17:4, 17:6, 27:16, 27:22, 30:16, 34:25, 35:10, 58:3, 58:10, 58:17, 63:21, 71:16 tomb [1] - 57:20 tomorrow [3] - 49:7, 49:25, 70:14 took [6] - 15:19, 27:24, 30:22, 41:12, 50:21, 58:17 top [2] - 7:8, 35:14 total [1] - 23:5 totally [1] - 12:9 towards [1] - 18:6 Tower [1] - 29:21 Towers [4] - 11:15, 28:18, 29:9 Trainee [1] - 12:23 training [2] - 19:13, 35:18 transcript [2] - 66:14, 72:7 transcripts [4] - 2:5, 64:9, 65:17, 67:1 transfers [1] - 51:10 transformation [1] - 66:20 TREASURER [1] - 1:16 treasurer [1] - 2:19 trial [1] - 19:11 tried [4] - 8:13, 15:14, 63:22, 64:11 true [3] - 57:6, 68:11, 72:6 truly [1] - 17:7 trusting [1] - 53:16 try [4] - 17:20, 35:13, 71:8, 71:17 trying [15] - 16:3, 19:25, 32:20, 32:24, 32:25, 38:22, 38:25, 39:4, 39:14, 44:8, 45:1, 45:16, 60:15, 62:5, 66:3 turn [2] - 7:3, 65:14 turnaround [2] - 19:5, 19:10 twist [1] - 64:6 two [16] - 6:14, 7:20, 19:23, 26:1, 26:22, 33:15, 50:15, 52:22, 56:15, 56:16, 57:8, 59:9, 61:18, 63:7, 63:17, 65:5 two-and-a-half [1] - 52:22 types [1] - 27:25 U U-10 [1] - 11:2 U.S.-based [2] - 8:3, 10:12 ultimate [1] - 64:5 unacceptable [1] - 14:21 unclear [1] - 25:9 unconditional [1] - 31:15 uncover [1] - 57:21 under [11] - 8:9, 10:9, 11:17, 11:20, 16:11, 39:15, 46:11, 48:13, 51:9, 63:10, 63:12 underneath [2] - 25:8, 48:8 underpaid [1] - 30:2 understood [2] - 33:5, 38:15 undertake [1] - 43:8 undervalue [1] - 4:18 unfortunately [2] - 28:7, 62:17 uniformity [3] - 22:17, 23:15, 24:10 union [1] - 48:3 Union [34] - 4:1, 4:3, 4:14, 6:15, 11:8, 11:24, 12:13, 12:19, 14:20, 14:24, 16:15, 16:17, 18:1, 21:2, 24:2, 25:23, 26:18, 31:21, 44:3, 44:7, 44:13, 44:23, 46:7, 47:1, 47:15, 48:2, 48:21, 54:11, 54:14, 57:9, 65:13, 65:18, 66:21, 66:22 UNION [1] - 1:13 Union's [7] - 26:10, 42:11, 46:16, 49:4, 49:5, 50:5, 56:4 unions [2] - 53:13, 54:10 unit [6] - 8:5, 21:22, 23:5, 38:18, 51:7, 51:16 United [7] - 4:5, 4:7, 4:15, 31:3, 31:16, 31:22, 33:9 unless [2] - 3:1, 57:12 unprecedented [1] - 9:10 up [29] - 3:16, 3:19, 3:20, 7:6, 9:13, 12:10, 12:12, 32:13, 32:19, 32:24, 33:1, 33:18, 33:23, 35:18, 36:21, 37:4, 38:2, 43:19, 49:15, 49:20, 49:22, 52:16, 55:24, 58:14, 59:2, 67:11, 68:5, 69:10, 69:12 updates [1] - 49:22 upgrade [1] - 19:18 upper [1] - 19:24 utilize [3] - 12:15, 19:14, 41:19 V value [2] - 16:20, 47:13 VIA [1] - 1:7 vice [2] - 2:10, 65:19 VICE [1] - 1:15 view [2] - 32:23, 56:8 Vijay [2] - 18:5, 18:15 violate [1] - 59:1 Visual [1] - 12:21 vital [1] - 18:19 voice [1] - 2:7 W wage [9] - 11:12, 11:23, 11:24, 11:25, 12:1, 12:5, 12:9, 28:17, 29:18 Wage [1] - 11:15 wages [7] - 6:3, 12:10, 25:24, 26:14, 28:2, 29:20, 35:3 Wages [1] - 11:2 walk [1] - 35:19 wants [6] - 6:21, 10:22, 24:12, 55:15, 59:13, 59:14 warrants [1] - 36:2 water [1] - 6:19 Watson [3] - 28:19, 29:9, 29:21 weeks [1] - 33:20 weird [1] - 25:10 whole [2] - 29:19, 37:4 willing [3] - 17:14, 22:9, 71:8 Willis [5] - 11:15, 28:18, 29:9, 29:21 Woods [1] - 18:16 word [1] - 19:19 words [1] - 4:21 works [3] - 25:13, 65:19, 70:22 worried [1] - 57:19 writing [2] - 43:2, 59:7 written [7] - 15:18, 15:22, 33:4, 66:12, 66:17, 67:17, 69:3 wrote [3] - 59:4, 59:6, 68:12 X XVIII [3] - 13:4, 13:23, 14:7 XXVI [1] - 13:3 XXVII [1] - 13:3 Y Year [4] - 11:5, 11:6, 12:3 year [7] - 5:8, 11:6, 12:11, 26:3, 26:11, 26:20, 26:24 years [26] - 5:20, 11:12, 11:22, 12:8, 16:17, 26:2, 29:3, 33:15, 33:16, 36:5, 38:8, 46:6, 50:15, 52:22, 54:4, 54:9, 56:8, 56:15, 56:16, 59:20, 61:19, 63:1, 65:5, 65:7 young [1] - 34:22 yourself [1] - 6:23 yourselves [1] - 19:21 YUK [1] - 1:12 Yuk [9] - 16:5, 19:22, 36:4, 36:12, 38:22, 43:19, 55:14, 59:3, 61:10 Z ZOOM [1] - 1:7