1 1 2 EMRE - ILEU 3 4 Collective Bargaining Agreement Negotiations 5 Friday, June 11, 2021 Commencing at 1:00 p.m. 6 7 HELD REMOTELY VIA ZOOM 8 --- Day 60 --- 9 P R E S E N T: 10 EXXONMOBIL RESEARCH AND ENGINEERING COMPANY: 11 JEFFELEE McCLAIN, CLINTON SITE HR MANAGER 12 JOSH BRYANT, CLINTON SITE LABOR ADVISOR YUK LOUIE, R&D OPERATIONS MANAGER 13 INDEPENDENT LABORATORY EMPLOYEES' UNION: 14 STEVEN RAGOMO, PRESIDENT 15 THOMAS FREDRIKSEN, VICE PRESIDENT ETHAN SEBASCO, SECRETARY 16 THOMAS FERRO, TREASURER DAVID LEBRON, ACT DELEGATE 17 MICHAEL MOLINA, PO&T DELEGATE PAUL MADIARA, DELEGATE 18 MICHAEL STRASSER, CSR STEWARD 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 2 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Good afternoon. 2 So last week, we had a counterproposal 3 that we gave to the Company that you said you were 4 still working on. 5 MS. McCLAIN: Yes, and we have an 6 outstanding information request for you, right? 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes. 8 MS. McCLAIN: We are trying to send 9 this over to you. We are just having some technical 10 difficulties. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 MS. McCLAIN: The outstanding 13 information request that we had was about the total 14 formulation and testing capability at the Clinton 15 site, per year for the last three years. How does 16 that compare to other ExxonMobil locations, you 17 know, per year over the last three years? 18 We did ask for clarification, and you 19 guys, you know, told us to provide the Clinton data 20 first and then you wanted to take a look at that. 21 Okay. So what is on the screen right 22 now is data for 2018, 2019, and 2020. The data for 23 2018 and 2019 reflect separations at both the 24 Paulsboro and Clinton sites for PO&T and ASL, 25 because we were operating in a dual mode in those Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 3 1 areas. 2 2020, of course, reflects any changes 3 that we had due to the pandemic and people not being 4 on-site for a period of time, or whatnot. 5 So you can see here that for PO&T, for 6 the ITRs -- and, of course, Yuk can jump in here at 7 any time -- but for the ITRs, this would be, of 8 course, runs a varying duration, same thing with the 9 ETCs. But you will see in 2018, it was 414. In 10 2019, it was 193. In 2020, it was 252. 11 For the ETCs in 2018, it was 71 runs. 12 For 2019, it was 41. And for 2020, it was 33. 13 For PO&T, large blends, you can see we 14 were in dual operations again. 873 -- and these are 15 batches, right, Yuk -- and these are blends, the 16 number of blends. And 735 for 2019 and 549 for 17 2020. 18 For small blends, you can see here it 19 was 5,389 in 2018. 3,832 in 2019. 3,747 for 2020. 20 In grease batches, which some of you 21 are familiar with, on the team already, it was 251 22 batches in 2018. 508 batches in 2019. And 307 23 batches in 2020. 24 For ASL, the number of tests that we 25 had in 2018 was 794. In 2019, it was 784. And for Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 4 1 2020, it was 785. 2 The number of requests. You see here, 3 2018 is 225,510. For 2019, 208,340. For 2020, 4 151,200 requests. 5 For Products Research Operations, 6 showing here the acronym "PRO." We have unit runs, 7 which is how many days the units ran. And you can 8 see here 2018, it was -- well, how many runs in 9 days, right? 4,501 in 2018. 2019, 4,200. In 2020, 10 3,812. 11 The micro units, again, running days. 12 In 2018, it was 5,286. 2019, 6049. 2020, 3,386. 13 For distillation runs, large scale 14 distillations at 241 in 2018. In 2019, 307. In 15 2020, 168. 16 Small scale, which is 15/5. 86 in 17 2018. 85 in 2019. And 117 in 2020. 18 And then for the small scale high 19 vacuum. In 2018, it is 422. 2019, 565. And 2020 20 is 309. 21 For Catalyst Preparations out the Cat 22 Tech group and PTD. In 2018 they had 2,300 Cat 23 Preps. And in 2019, it was 2,539. And in 2020 it 24 was 2,193. 25 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Thank you. This is a Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 5 1 lot to digest, obviously. So whenever you can send 2 it over. 3 MS. McCLAIN: I believe Josh tried to 4 send it over. 5 MR. BRYANT: It attached, and I don't 6 know if you guys got it. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I got it. 8 MS. McCLAIN: All right. 9 MR. RAGOMO: I am checking to see if I 10 received it or not also. Bear with me. 11 MS. McCLAIN: Do you want to take a 12 minute and look at that? 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Well, if you have 14 more, like if you have a response to our 15 counterproposal, that would be helpful before we 16 caucus again. 17 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Josh -- we do. We 18 want to take the time, we looked at what you guys 19 gave us, you know, last time on the -- on your offer 20 regarding the technicians. And let me see if this 21 is working because I didn't have that opened just 22 yet. But I can -- so this was on the Automotive 23 Technician. We wanted to take some time and really 24 consider and go back to the SMEs. 25 Josh, I don't know if you can -- you Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 6 1 want to send that one over. 2 MR. BRYANT: Yes, I will send it. Hold 3 on one second. I think I have got it attached, so 4 it should get there pretty quickly. 5 MS. McCLAIN: So on the Automotive 6 Techs -- 7 MR. RAGOMO: My e-mail is still goofed. 8 I didn't receive it yet. 9 MS. McCLAIN: So on the Automotive 10 Techs, your response and proposal was to, you know, 11 fix the title link of the jobs. That was one of the 12 proposals of the jobs. And then you had, you know, 13 for the Company to consider, you know, bringing in 14 all Automotive Technicians at the equivalent of 15 Technician Year 3, regardless of where -- what 16 background they had, what experience they had. And 17 then also, that we'll maintain no more than 20 18 percent of the Automotive promotional group at the 19 Automotive Technician start. 20 So we had asked some clarifying 21 questions and we went back and, like I said, took a 22 look at this and, you know, what -- in talking with 23 the subject matter experts -- 24 And Yuk, if you want to chime in here. 25 -- what we are willing to consider Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 7 1 right now is, you know, yes, changing the titling. 2 We understand the Union's concerns about the word 3 "Advanced." So we will change to Tech, you know, 4 Auto Tech and Senior Auto Tech. For limiting the 5 number of people as -- you know, in the Automotive 6 Technician start, you know, we really want to 7 maintain that flexibility in order to have the right 8 people in the right job, you know, that come along 9 with the experience. And so, you know, we are 10 really not interested in that. 11 But what we are -- what you will see in 12 the proposal -- not in the proposal, but in the 13 change, what we were sending over is the changed job 14 description, is those titles, as well as updating 15 the requirement for years of service -- prior 16 experience for the start. 17 And so, Yuk, if you want to take that 18 one -- I mean, take us through this one. Let me 19 present it. 20 Oh, I am not sharing. Sorry about 21 that. Let me know when you can see it. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I can see it. 23 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. So as you will see 24 here, for Automotive Technician, we have changed 25 that, the first level to say Technician, listening Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 8 1 to what you guys said. Here you will see the 2 requirements for entry. You know, we still believe 3 that the ASE certification is important to us, but 4 instead of three years, we are lowering that to two. 5 We went back and took a look and 6 discussed with our SME. And so from an equivalent 7 year of experience, we will have two there. 8 And then there are no changes other 9 than the adjustments, as the Union suggested, to the 10 Automotive Technician and then the Senior Automotive 11 Technician. You know, when we looked at the 12 requirements and the steps required, it all seemed 13 to match the positioning and the level of experience 14 that someone would come in at and the progression 15 steps that would be necessary to get from one group 16 to another. 17 And I maintained, and I know Yuk does 18 as well, that when candidates come on your way, we, 19 just like we have for Research Technician, will 20 continue to consider them for any of the three that 21 they are qualified for. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Who is the subject 23 matter expert for this? 24 MS. McCLAIN: Yuk, you worked with 25 Mike; is that correct? Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 9 1 MS. LOUIE: Yes, the subject matter 2 expert that developed the job description was Glen 3 Jeffery with Ricardo Conte and Mike Ragomo. So I 4 went back and talked to Ricardo Conte and Mike 5 Ragomo to adjust the changes. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. Thank you. 7 MS. McCLAIN: On the Union's proposal 8 regarding the holidays. You know, the Company is, 9 you know, of course supportive of employees taking 10 time off for whatever reason they see fit. You 11 know, we provide ten company holidays. That is 12 inclusive of floating holidays. You know, the 13 Company at this time is not interested in adding an 14 eleventh, but what the Company would propose to the 15 Union is, you know, you can take any of the fixed 16 holidays that we have or the floating holidays that 17 we have and we can convert that into a fixed holiday 18 for Juneteenth. 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Wait. So an 20 individual can take a holiday -- are you saying as a 21 count -- a contract proposal? 22 MS. McCLAIN: Right. You can decide, 23 right, there are options available to you that we 24 are willing to consider. Right? You can take, you 25 know, one of the three floating holidays and fix it Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 10 1 for Juneteenth, or you can take any of the other 2 fixed seven holidays and trade one for Juneteenth. 3 So you can -- you know, those are options that we 4 are throwing out there. If you are interested in 5 one of them, let us know. But we would like to -- 6 if it is for taking one fixed holiday and trading it 7 for, you know, Juneteenth, then it would be 8 Union-wide. 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. We will discuss 10 that. Thank you for the suggestions. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Is that -- 12 MS. McCLAIN: Just so you know, I was 13 going to take the 18th off in celebration for 14 Juneteenth, but we are bargaining that day, so I 15 will take it next year. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Sorry. 17 MS. McCLAIN: No, this is an important 18 discussion for us to have. 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Do you have any other 20 responses to the rest of our comprehensive 21 counterproposal? 22 MS. McCLAIN: No. You know, your 23 proposals on C2 still do not address the Company's 24 needs for flexibility and clarity. You know, our 25 proposal remains the same. And same thing for the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 11 1 Savings Plan, we have had no changes on that one. 2 And I think we have a meeting of language on 3 Educational Refund, if I recall. Those were the 4 only outstanding ones. And, of course, wages, there 5 are changes to the Company's wage offer. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. So before we 7 caucus, I have two questions for you. 8 MS. McCLAIN: Certainly. 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Maybe you could 10 potentially work on it while we caucus. 11 So I think Bonnie Godfrey, on behalf of 12 Vijay Suarez, has sent a notice out to the 13 represented employees that he is going to have a 14 forum with them. If there is an agenda or prepared 15 remarks from Vijay, we are requesting to see those 16 in advance. 17 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. And the other 18 request? 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: And secondly, was the 20 Company's -- the Company stated in April that LPOs 21 are not voluntary anymore. Is the Company going to 22 share that information with the site? 23 MS. McCLAIN: In what way do you mean? 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Like this is a change, 25 and I think most of the people on-site believe that Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 12 1 this is a voluntary process. So is it your 2 intention, in order to avoid any employees violating 3 whatever it is that you think would be a 4 disciplinary offense, is it your intent to share 5 that with the site? 6 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. Right now we 7 haven't -- I don't know of any plans, but let's 8 caucus and discuss. 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. 10 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I don't have any other 12 questions. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. 14 Steve, do you have anything else? 15 MR. RAGOMO: No, I am good. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We will let you know 17 when we are ready. 18 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 19 (Remote negotiations recessed at 1:32 20 p.m. and resumed at 2:37 p.m.) 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Thank you for getting 22 back together with us. 23 MS. McCLAIN: Yep. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: First, I would like to 25 start off by saying to you, JeffeLee, that if -- so Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 13 1 in recognition of the significance of Juneteenth, 2 obviously we think it is a very significant weight, 3 after we made that proposal. You know, we are 4 proposing to reschedule Friday, or if the Company 5 can't reschedule, we can cancel negotiations for 6 that day so that you or anyone else can take the day 7 without feeling any undue pressure. 8 MS. McCLAIN: That is okay. I 9 appreciate that, but that wasn't -- I did not intend 10 for you to feel bad about that, but simply 11 recognizing, you know, my interest and what I was 12 willing to do. So not a problem. I really 13 appreciate it. So thank you very much for the 14 offer. 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. 16 So now back to the proposal. We think 17 it is very important, not only for the company, but 18 -- the way we see it is, either the Company doesn't 19 want to take the opportunity to be a leader in 20 inclusion and diversity in terms of recognizing this 21 holiday before it is, you know, a Federally 22 recognized holiday. You would be an industry 23 leader. It is not currently recognized by a lot of 24 different industries. 25 And adding it to the existing ten, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 14 1 rather than asking us to give up something for it, 2 not only would this be a huge win for I&D, but in 3 terms of, you know, emerging, we'll say like 4 professional generations that are going -- the 5 Company is going to need to seek out after it lost 6 so many people, particularly young people, I think 7 this would be a very significant and attractive 8 selling point for the Company. So we kind of want 9 to impress upon you the significance of the day, 10 rather than asking us to kind of give up a day. 11 And then to the comment about floating 12 holidays, there is already so many floating -- so 13 like -- here is a list of just nine holidays that I 14 looked at. The first four of which are bank 15 holidays. Veteran's Day, President's Day, Martin 16 Luther King Day, Indigenous Peoples' Day, also known 17 as Columbus Day. So those four are bank holidays. 18 So like someone's spouse might already get one of 19 those holidays off, for example, or their son or 20 their daughter or something like that. 21 There is also Election Day, Easter, 22 St. Patrick's Day, Christmas Eve, Good Friday. Like 23 I can't pick the two most important days off of that 24 list. So I mean, it is just getting hard, I think. 25 And, you know, adding this to a recognized holiday Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 15 1 would prevent somebody from needing to make that 2 decision. So as it stands, we know our 3 counterproposal is still the same for that day, and 4 we are just asking you to consider it again. 5 MS. McCLAIN: Uh-huh. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So moving onto Auto 7 Mechanics. So the Company said that, you know, they 8 took a look at the titles, and thank you for doing 9 that, that was a good change. And you took a look 10 at the job description, and thank you also for doing 11 that. But kind of the most important part about 12 this, which is kind of why we were so adamant that 13 we didn't want 14 levels of progression was that we 14 think the pay is too low. So you didn't really 15 comment on that. 16 So your subject matter experts, the 17 three individuals that you identified, presumably 18 looked at the pay for these people and decided that 19 it was still fair. So what -- like, can we see the 20 raw data they used, the data that they are using to 21 assess that the pay is fair? 22 MS. McCLAIN: We have provided the Auto 23 Mechanic -- 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So they are using that 25 figure? Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 16 1 MS. McCLAIN: We set that -- 2 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes, you did. I am 3 just asking -- so you said you went back to them, 4 right, after our last session? 5 MS. McCLAIN: We went back to them and 6 we talked to them about the requirements and tested 7 with them, those things, the salaries are set, you 8 know, based on the information that we have been 9 discussing here. 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So it is the same as 11 what you have provided previously, is what you are 12 saying? 13 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. We might have 15 to come back to that. 16 So about the information request, by 17 the way, thank you. That is a lot of data and it 18 clearly took a lot of work and we really appreciate 19 that. It is more than I could have expected and it 20 was very helpful that you put that together for us. 21 So thank you. 22 So looking at the data, at this time, I 23 don't think we need to request this for any other 24 companies. Keeping it within Clinton, though, as a 25 follow-up, which hopefully would be less labor Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 17 1 intensive, we are asking for -- so you said, 2 JeffeLee, that there is a reduction in some of these 3 tests and requests and stuff because of the 4 pandemic. So our request is between 2019 and 2020, 5 you know, identifying those reductions, for any of 6 these line items, how many of the tests were 7 outsourced in those categories? 8 So like, for example, ASL tests, the 9 test that ASL could do, how many were outsourced? 10 So how many were reduced due to outsourcing as 11 opposed to the pandemic? That is our follow-up 12 request. 13 So is that clear? 14 MS. LOUIE: I can tell you that now. 15 The answer is zero. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Zero? So tests were 17 outsourced in 2020? 18 MS. LOUIE: Yes. 19 MS. McCLAIN: We can double check. 20 MS. LOUIE: The number came in lower 21 because we told them people were not to come into 22 work. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right. I believe you. 24 I am just -- 25 MS. McCLAIN: I have to double-check. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 18 1 I mean, Yuk, I know collected this information and 2 was the lead on this one, but I think we would have 3 to go back to all of the folks because it was just 4 -- and just double-check on that. But for right 5 now, that -- if that is her understanding. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. 7 MS. LOUIE: Yeah, it is going to be 8 close to zero, if not zero. I am just telling you. 9 Okay? 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. That would be 11 very helpful. I think we are getting close to an 12 understanding, and I thank you for that. 13 Those are our follow-up requests. 14 So in terms of the rest of the 15 contract -- bear with me for a second. We talked 16 about Auto Mechanic and we talked about the last 17 information requests. So the Company said that 18 their proposal stands on C2 and they are satisfied 19 with what it is. 20 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. That is what I 21 said. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So I don't think we 23 talked about this since we proposed it specifically. 24 The first sentence that we proposed was: "The 25 purpose of independent contractors is not to erode Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 19 1 the bargaining unit, nor to restrict or limit its 2 growth." 3 So why -- what is wrong with that? 4 MS. McCLAIN: I think we have proven, 5 you know, we will hire when we need to hire and grow 6 the Union in different ways, if necessary, based on 7 our business needs. So we don't see it as 8 necessary. I mean, the Union had suggested that in 9 the past. You know, over past years, we have 10 discussed it over the past years, it remains the 11 same as our intent, you know, is still -- we have 12 operations in Clinton. We need employees. We hire 13 employees. They have the right to choose to join 14 the Union, so it is still an opportunity to grow. 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So you are saying that 16 that is a self-evident fact based on the Company's 17 past practices? 18 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So how is an 20 arbitrator going to know that if they can't look at 21 anything else other than the proposal? 22 MS. McCLAIN: Well, that is what we are 23 discussing, right? That is what we do. We are not 24 saying that we are, you know, totally never going to 25 hire. We are not saying in the Side Agreement that Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 20 1 we are never going to hire another Research 2 Technician or ET or even an Auto Mechanic or even a 3 Mechanic or, you know, the other titles. That Side 4 Agreement doesn't say that. 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I understand that, but 6 the Company is proposing that not only can they not 7 look at the past practice of the Company's behavior 8 and actions, but they also can't look at these 9 conversations that provide clarifying information. 10 That is part of the Company's proposal for what an 11 arbitrator can look at. 12 So you are telling me a self-evident 13 fact using external knowledge, you don't need to add 14 it to this proposal because you think it is 15 self-evident? I don't think -- it doesn't make -- 16 you are contradicting yourself. Like, how can an 17 arbitrator know that if they can't -- they can't 18 even ask you, is what you are saying with your 19 proposal. They couldn't even ask you. 20 MS. McCLAIN: That is not what we are 21 saying at all. That is not what we are saying at 22 all. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Prior practice is one 24 of the things you have that they can't look at. 25 MS. McCLAIN: But we are not saying Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 21 1 that, you know, in their interpretation on 2 contracting where we say -- and unfortunately my 3 Windows is frozen, so I can't look at your language 4 that you are referencing. If you don't mind sharing 5 it. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I can share it. Yeah, 7 I don't mind. 8 Can you see it? 9 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So here is the 11 sentence of how the proposal starts out. And just 12 to set the tone of the proposal. The lined out 13 items are obviously the Company's proposal. Now the 14 Company is saying: "Any arbitrator ruling on these 15 contracting matters shall not consider prior 16 practice." 17 So how can you sit there and tell me 18 that based on the Company's prior practice, it is a 19 self-evident fact that they are not going to erode 20 the bargaining unit, and that an arbitrator would 21 somehow know that? 22 MS. McCLAIN: But what I am saying is 23 that they would be able to know that and look at it. 24 If you scroll up -- sorry. Because we are talking 25 about the use of contractors, not our right to hire. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 22 1 We intend to hire. We will hire. We still have the 2 right to hire employees. So that is where I am 3 coming from. And that we say: "All employees" -- 4 right -- "in the position," and we have talked about 5 it. This is our language, right? 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right. 7 MR. RAGOMO: But have you not eroded 8 the bargaining unit by not -- 9 MS. McCLAIN: We have not. 10 MR. RAGOMO: Well, I did not finish, 11 but that is okay. 12 MS. McCLAIN: Go ahead. 13 MR. RAGOMO: You have not replaced 14 Mechanics, Electricians, so is there not an erosion 15 there? We are down to -- you eroded the Mechanics 16 down to five left. 17 MS. McCLAIN: I disagree with that. 18 But I don't believe we have eroded the bargaining 19 unit. We have hired when we need to. It doesn't 20 say anything about, you know, us having to hire a 21 particular percentage and stay at a particular 22 level. We look at our business need and we hire 23 based on what we need to have on site and the work 24 that is necessary. So I disagree that we have 25 eroded the Unit. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 23 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: What is your 2 definition of "erode," JeffeLee? Just loosely 3 define it. 4 MS. McCLAIN: What does that have to do 5 with it? 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I am concerned here, 7 because Steve just identified the fact that you 8 replaced an employee by attrition, right, they left, 9 and then you replaced them with a contractor, when 10 it is a bargaining unit job and you should have 11 replaced them with an employee. You are saying that 12 is not an erosion of the bargaining unit where we 13 went from 209 represented employees to 208 14 represented employees. And the Company's number of 15 contractors went from -- 16 MS. McCLAIN: -- that go into that. So 17 I disagree, you know, that you are claiming we are 18 just eroding the bargaining unit. That is not the 19 case. We have the right to set our staffing levels. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Sure. But the work 21 you are doing on site is represented work, it is 22 represented labor. It is covered by our collective 23 bargaining unit. 24 MR. RAGOMO: Yes. 25 MS. McCLAIN: The employees choose to Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 24 1 be represented, right? We -- they are still our 2 employees and it is still our company business. 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is an agreement 4 between the employees and the Company. 5 MS. McCLAIN: Exactly. So it is not -- 6 I am just disagreeing with certain terms that you 7 are using and making it clear that it is our 8 business. It is our work that we have contracted, 9 and we have a contract in terms with the employees 10 who do that work. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That is not true. 12 MR. RAGOMO: No. 13 MR. FREDRIKSEN: It is not your work. 14 This is an agreement between ExxonMobil and the 15 ILEU. We are employees that work for ExxonMobil. 16 We are the same entity in many regards. But the 17 work, the labor that is covered by our bargaining 18 unit is the bargaining unit labor. 19 MR. RAGOMO: Yes. 20 MS. McCLAIN: However, we determine the 21 work and the business that we have and who we hire. 22 These are our employees. Our work. Our site. 23 Right? 24 The Union represents the employees 25 there. Okay. I disagree with the term that it is Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 25 1 "your Union work." It is not. It is our employees. 2 Our work. Our site. You are representing them, you 3 know, in the agreement of their terms and conditions 4 of employment at the site. 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Unbelievable. 6 MR. RAGOMO: Wow. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: This is unbelievable. 8 JeffeLee, I am going to read for you 9 Article I, "Recognition and Coverage," Section 1. 10 "The agreement recognizes that a bargaining unit 11 relationship exists between EMRE and the Union." 12 Section 2. "Whenever the term 13 'Company' is used in this agreement, it shall mean 14 EMRE. The Company recognizes the Union as the 15 exclusive representative of all EMRE employees whose 16 job classifications are listed in Exhibit 2, and who 17 are based at the Clinton, New Jersey facility, as 18 covered by this agreement for the purpose of 19 collective bargaining, with respect to rates of pay, 20 hours of employment, and other conditions of 21 employment, as provided by the certificate, The 22 National Labor Relations Board. Wherever used in 23 this agreement, words in the masculine gender denote 24 also the feminine gender." 25 Section 3A. "This agreement covers Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 26 1 only the jobs, the titles of which are listed on the 2 rate of pay schedules attached hereto at the 3 offices, laboratories, and facilities of the Company 4 in the State of New Jersey." 5 B. "Does not cover employees holding 6 permanent or temporary assignments as confidential, 7 professional, executive, managerial or supervisory 8 employees as defined in the National Labor Relations 9 Act." 10 C. "The term 'human resources 11 department and management' wherever used in the 12 agreement, shall refer to the human resources 13 department or management of EMRE." 14 4. "The employees covered under this 15 Agreement, make up a single bargaining unit." 16 So, this agreement, which is an 17 agreement between EMRE and the Union, has job 18 descriptions in it -- 19 MS. McCLAIN: For the individuals who 20 would be considered as members and representatives 21 of members of the Union. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The agreement covers 23 the jobs. 24 MR. RAGOMO: Yes, it covers the jobs. 25 MS. McCLAIN: I disagree. It covers -- Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 27 1 and this might be semantics, but it covers -- and 2 you read it right there. You read those words. You 3 represent the people with job titles at the site. 4 You represent the terms and conditions of employment 5 regarding people holding those job titles at the 6 site. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The title is not 8 really that important, JeffeLee. The work that they 9 do defines their title. So you could -- you are 10 telling me that it would be totally fine if you just 11 relabeled all the Research Technicians -- 12 MS. McCLAIN: That is not what I am 13 saying. 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: -- as like Fancy-Dancy 15 Technicians and said they are not covered by our 16 bargaining unit anymore -- 17 MS. McCLAIN: That is not what I am 18 saying. 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: -- even though they 20 are doing all the work that we are doing. 21 MS. McCLAIN: That is not what I am 22 saying. What I am saying is, those individuals with 23 those titles. However, the work and the people are 24 the Company's, you know -- that is our company 25 business. That is our company work. Right? You Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 28 1 represent them with these job titles who might be 2 doing something for us, but you don't represent the 3 work. You represent the people -- 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We represent the jobs. 5 MS. McCLAIN: -- who are doing that 6 work. So that is what I am getting at. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So why do we have -- 8 if you are saying that we have nothing to do with 9 the work, then why is there language in the contract 10 about how work must be done by bargaining unit 11 employees, and if it is done by non-represented 12 employees, then we have a problem? There are 13 multiple portions of the contract that address that. 14 There are side letters that talk about -- like 15 members of MTS working in the labs and -- 16 MS. McCLAIN: The individual who is 17 performing the job and whether or not you can and 18 should represent their terms and conditions. In 19 that particular instance of people working in the 20 lab because we also have, you know, language about 21 Researchers and Technicians working together in the 22 lab. Right? But those are to delineate, you know, 23 who is represented, what terms and conditions you 24 do. That there are people who go into the lab and 25 do research and they are not members of the Union, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 29 1 and we have language about that. So that is my 2 interpretation. We can move on from this. 3 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I don't want to move 4 on. This is really important. If the -- if a 5 particular laboratory, the Mass Spec laboratory, my 6 laboratory, if me and Danielle, who is the other 7 Technician who works in that laboratory, were to get 8 reassigned or lose our jobs or quit and there are no 9 Technicians in that position, do you believe that 10 the MTS can just come in and do that work and you 11 never have to hire another Technician? 12 MS. McCLAIN: So it is not that the MTS 13 can just come into the work, because then the MTS 14 would not be an MTS. They would be a Technician, 15 who is subject to being represented. However -- 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Oh, my God. JeffeLee, 17 you just said -- 18 MS. McCLAIN: That is how companies 19 work. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: If you are doing the 21 work of a Technician, it makes you a Technician. 22 MS. LOUIE: Could I just jump in here? 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Sure. 24 MS. LOUIE: I think the example that 25 you are talking about that is this Mass Spec work, Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 30 1 the Company owns the work because we can decide 2 whether that work goes away or stays or expands. 3 That is what the Company controls. You do not 4 control the level or whether we keep the work. The 5 Company owns the work. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I agree with you. I 7 never said that you have to keep doing -- 8 MS. McCLAIN: And that is what I said 9 about -- 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Wait. 11 MS. LOUIE: What Jeffe was trying to 12 say to you is that the Company controls the work. 13 You are representing the people who is doing the 14 work, but we, the Company, has the right to decide 15 on the work that is to be done. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: See, you went too far. 17 You were almost there. So the problem here is that 18 what you are saying, right, is true is that we are 19 not going to do make you do Mass Spec if you don't 20 want to do Mass Spec. Right? We never said that, 21 that you are forced to do work that you want to get 22 out of the business of. Okay. 23 MR. RAGOMO: That is right. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: But if you want to do 25 Mass Spec at the Clinton site, it has to be done by Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 31 1 a represented employee. 2 MS. LOUIE: And we don't disagree with 3 that piece. 4 MS. McCLAIN: Yeah. And we have said 5 that we intend to hire Research -- if we hire a 6 Research Technician, they are represented by the 7 site. If we hire someone with the title of a 8 Mechanic, right, doing the work that we dictate as a 9 Mechanic, they are an employee and they have the 10 right to join the Union. What I am saying is 11 exactly what Yuk said, she understood it pretty 12 clearly, that the Company decides whether or not we 13 need that work. That is our work to do. 14 MR. RAGOMO: Right. But if you have 15 hired contractors to do collective bargaining work 16 that is protected under the Collective Bargaining 17 Agreement, we still represent those positions and 18 you are not filling them. So you are eroding -- 19 MS. LOUIE: No, no. 20 MS. McCLAIN: No. 21 MS. LOUIE: Because the language allows 22 us to hire a contractor for projects, work 23 fluctuations, and other short-term discreet 24 businesses. 25 MR. FREDRIKSEN: There is no language Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 32 1 in the contract that says you can do that. 2 MS. LOUIE: It says right there. I am 3 looking at it right now. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That is not in the 5 contract. 6 MR. FERRO: That is just the proposal. 7 MS. McCLAIN: Right. There is language 8 that says we may let independent contractors. 9 MR. FREDRIKSEN: For a period of time. 10 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 11 MS. LOUIE: Yes. 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Which means you cannot 13 have them be permanent contractors. 14 MS. LOUIE: But it says "staff relative 15 to project," and I believe that -- we believe that 16 the current language allows us to do that today. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Arbitrator Klein 18 already said that that is not what that means. 19 MS. McCLAIN: And we disagree. 20 MS. LOUIE: Right. 21 MS. McCLAIN: But we are not here to 22 relitigate that in bargaining. 23 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Well, you know, Tom 24 did ask a question in terms of what do you believe 25 the definition of "erode" is. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 33 1 MS. McCLAIN: And I said, what does it 2 matter, and that is how we got to this kind of 3 conversation of us being able to set and decide and, 4 you know, our pre-staffing levels, and we don't 5 believe that we have done that. 6 MR. RAGOMO: So you don't want to have 7 a definition of "erode"? 8 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You just don't want to 9 say what you think it is? 10 MS. McCLAIN: I don't think we need to. 11 MR. FERRO: So what is it called when 12 you permanently replace an employee that leaves with 13 a contractor? What would you describe that as, 14 then? 15 MS. McCLAIN: Utilizing contractors. 16 Letting of a contractor. 17 MR. FERRO: But permanently? 18 MS. McCLAIN: Permanently or 19 temporarily or based on what we have been 20 discussing. 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I have got to lay 22 down. This is unbelievable. 23 MR. RAGOMO: Well, before you pass out, 24 Tom, I need to ask again, JeffeLee, just because I 25 guess it is in my nature. Obviously this is Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 34 1 something where we are not having an understanding 2 between us. You had said that Yuk understood what 3 you were trying to say regarding to work, and Tom 4 and I weren't quite understanding it. So do you 5 think a third-party, a mediator could potentially 6 help us moving on from this? I believe when we 7 ended the last bargaining session I did bring it up 8 again, and you said you would take it under 9 consideration. And so again, I am formally 10 requesting a third-party mediator to help us get 11 through this. 12 MS. McCLAIN: And you know, we did -- I 13 took it under consideration. We talked. We want to 14 see how these conversations are going. You know, we 15 still believe that we prefer that we address the 16 parties, you know, address issues between the two 17 parties. And, you know, so we don't think that one 18 is necessary simply because we disagree on points. 19 It doesn't to me, makes me think that we need one. 20 So, you know, I think we have points where we 21 continue to disagree. You know, I don't see it as a 22 lack of understanding. I see it as a disagreement 23 that we are continuing to be apart on. But, you 24 know, I prefer that we address the issues here in 25 bargaining. And it is, you know, best resolved by Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 35 1 us. 2 MR. RAGOMO: Well -- so 60 sessions and 3 three years' worth, you declare an impasse and still 4 you are resistant to a mediator. That seems a bit 5 out of sync to me that at some point in time you 6 would at least try something different. 7 MS. McCLAIN: Again, I think you have 8 heard the opinion and what I have said, unless you 9 didn't understand that, but I think we did. So... 10 MR. RAGOMO: No, I don't understand. 11 MS. McCLAIN: No, you -- 12 MR. RAGOMO: I don't have an 13 understanding of it. 14 MS. McCLAIN: You would prefer that we 15 use a mediator, and we are saying we prefer not to. 16 We prefer to resolve the issues among the parties, 17 among the parties involved. You disagree with that 18 and -- 19 MR. RAGOMO: No, I don't -- it is not 20 that I -- I don't understand why the Company is so 21 resistant to it. 22 MR. FERRO: Can I ask a side question a 23 little bit, in reference to your parties, I guess? 24 Originally the bargaining -- the original bargaining 25 team, I think they were talking about their team was Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 36 1 bigger than just the people who showed up at 2 bargaining, and it is my understanding that you 3 still meet with a larger team than the three of you. 4 I am just wondering who is on that team now. I 5 don't know if it has changed since you guys took 6 over for the previous people or is there not a 7 larger group that you meet with, maybe before or 8 after these sessions. 9 MS. McCLAIN: This is the team, me, Yuk 10 and Josh. What the other team, and any bargaining 11 team on the Company's side, has is, you know, we 12 have management that we might meet periodically with 13 or we have to answer to. Not at the bargaining 14 table. We have full authority to do so. But I am 15 simply talking about the understanding that we are 16 representing, you know, a company and that is 17 understood. 18 MR. FERRO: I guess what I am getting 19 at is, is it up to the three people here or is there 20 anyone else that has to make the decision within the 21 Company, like are you guys authorized? 22 MS. McCLAIN: Who, us? Yeah, we are 23 authorized to make all decisions about his. 24 MR. FERRO: So you three could decide 25 on a mediator; there is not a higher level of Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 37 1 management needed? 2 MS. McCLAIN: That is what I just said. 3 MR. FERRO: Okay. I am just clarifying 4 in my own mind, that is all. 5 MS. McCLAIN: Any other questions? 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Yes. Let's go back to 7 why you think that prior practice being excluded 8 from what an arbitrator can look at means that they 9 are going to have any idea what the Company's prior 10 practice is. You haven't explained that to me yet. 11 MS. McCLAIN: What I said was for -- 12 you asked specifically about eroding the unit. I 13 said -- I answered and -- 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: We said this language 15 is self-evident. You said any arbitrator would know 16 it right away. They would know it automatically 17 because this is how the Company has been behaving. 18 MS. McCLAIN: It says nothing about us 19 not hiring or that we intend to not hire or that we 20 intend to never hire again. All it speaks to is our 21 ability to utilize contractors. So the arbitrator, 22 you know, would look at this and there is nothing 23 here that says, "We don't hire," and I was speaking 24 about the Company's right and decision to grow the 25 unit, to hire people, to, you know, do all of those Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 38 1 things, and there is nothing here that talks about 2 us not hiring. This simply talks about our use of 3 contractors, and that is what I said in this 4 section. 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: But the reason why you 6 told me, when I asked you why you don't want the 7 language in there, was because you thought it was a 8 self-evident fact. 9 MS. McCLAIN: It is not necessary. 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. Let's move on. 11 I don't agree. I disagree that what 12 you are saying makes any sense at all. I think it 13 is contradictory of your own proposal. I am 14 starting to wonder if you wrote your own proposal. 15 So moving on. So the last time we 16 talked about this sentence here, "Nothing in this 17 side letter shall be construed to exempt the Company 18 from, or override in any way, all applicable labor 19 laws and regulations." 20 So you took exception with this because 21 you said that the laws will apply anyway. So, like, 22 you pointed out the fact, which is true, that we 23 can't agree to something illegal in the contract. 24 MS. McCLAIN: Correct. 25 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So if there was Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 39 1 something that was required by the Company, 2 according to any labor law or regulation, you are 3 saying this is already true? 4 MS. McCLAIN: It is already true. 5 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Okay. So how would an 6 arbitrator know that? 7 MS. McCLAIN: It is not saying that an 8 arbitrator would not -- our language does not say 9 that the arbitrator would disregard all laws and 10 regulations. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: What does "custom and 12 industry standards" means then, in that case? 13 MS. McCLAIN: An industry standard is 14 not a law. An industry standard is not a 15 regulation, neither is a custom. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Define -- 17 MS. McCLAIN: A labor law is -- are 18 laws passed by our State and our Federal government. 19 Similarly, regulations are those by government 20 agencies with the authority, you know, to institute 21 rules and guidelines by which we must comply, that 22 is law for us to comply. So that is not that. An 23 industry standard is like -- I don't know, what is 24 the one with SPLEET [ph] that used to regulate API, 25 whatever. There are laws that dictate when somebody Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 40 1 can or can't come to work or how much time. Right? 2 And we have to follow that and we have to pay people 3 according to that. There are industry standards 4 that say it is a best practice for you to have 12 5 hours between a rotating shift or something like 6 that, that industry associations would put out. 7 Those are not laws that companies must follow issued 8 by the government, either federal or state. Those 9 are not regulations issued by a government agency 10 that we must follow. Right? Those are industry 11 standards that we make a decision about whether or 12 not the Company wants to adhere to or not. That is 13 what that means. 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That was clear. Thank 15 you. I understood everything that you just said. 16 Okay. I don't think the Company takes 17 exception to this, you just don't want to agree to 18 the time frame. Am I understanding that correctly? 19 MS. McCLAIN: What do you mean? 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So this last sentence 21 is, "If the contract is ratified by June 30, 2021, 22 the Company may continue any contracting of work 23 and/or positions done prior to the date of this 24 letter, and the Company is not obligated during the 25 term of this Side Agreement to replace those Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 41 1 contractors with employee. If the contract is not 2 ratified by June 30, 2021, this paragraph shall be 3 removed from the Side Agreement." 4 So other than the first and last 5 sentence, I guess, you agree to this. Like this is 6 something that -- 7 MS. McCLAIN: It is part of the Company 8 language that are a part of the Company C2 today, 9 you know, that the Company may continue to contract 10 the contracting of work and/or positions prior to 11 the agreement. 12 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I just want to make 13 sure we reflect the same understanding. Because to 14 be honest, it has been a while since we have had 15 anything from the Company, like that you have given 16 to us. So I just wanted a refresher. 17 All right. The Savings Plan. Let's 18 talk about that for a second. 19 MS. McCLAIN: Sure. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So it is not on here. 21 Actually, I have it. Let me pull that up. So you 22 see it? 23 MR. RAGOMO: Yes. 24 MS. McCLAIN: Yes. 25 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So we made this change Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 42 1 last time we gave you this proposal, which was May 2 21st, which was, "The Company or the Union to modify 3 the Company's obligations." So that was the change 4 we made last time. And the purpose of that change 5 was because the Company had some concern over some 6 precedent setting thing that would affect people who 7 weren't part of the bargaining unit when they wanted 8 to suspend the match again in the future. So we 9 added that as a way to cover that Company's concern. 10 So my understanding is that the 11 remaining Company concern is simply that you don't 12 want to create two classes of employees, which is, 13 ones that are grandfathered to have their Savings 14 Plan protected and ones that are not. Did I capture 15 that correctly? 16 MS. McCLAIN: Yes, I think that is what 17 we talked about before. 18 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Now, there are already 19 a lot of different things that divide up the 20 bargaining unit. Will you also admit -- will you 21 agree with that? 22 MS. McCLAIN: I am sure that there are. 23 I am not disputing that. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: There is. For 25 example, there are up-rates, there are red circle Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 43 1 rates. There are people's rates of pay. There are 2 people that are, you know, up-rated to positions 3 that aren't even -- I don't know if there are 4 Designers any more, but there used to be. There are 5 people that have different, special shifts. There 6 are tons of different things that exist within the 7 contract that divide up the bargaining unit in 8 various different ways. 9 So the Company's point that they don't 10 want to divide up the bargaining unit, doesn't 11 really make sense to me when it is something that 12 kind of already happens normally. It is like the 13 way the contract is written. So can you help me 14 understand what is so distasteful about this 15 proposal from the Company's perspective, maybe a 16 little more? 17 MS. McCLAIN: I think you are -- like I 18 said, imbedded in grandfathering this particular 19 group, you are still restricting the Company from 20 making decisions about the Match, about suspending 21 the Match, about, you know, the level of the Match 22 that people have. I mean, that is why we are here 23 and talking about the Match suspension. And, you 24 know, that the Company -- now what you are asking 25 the Company to do is give up the right for this Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 44 1 select group of employees to change and not have 2 their ability to make decisions on the Company 3 Match. 4 So that is what we are talking about 5 with grandfathering that you have got this select 6 group. The Company is giving up their rights to 7 make decisions. You know, we can't even negotiate 8 that decision anymore because it is saying that they 9 will be protected further, until they retire or are 10 promoted, you know, outside the Unit or otherwise 11 separated. 12 So, to us, that is the crux of 13 grandfathering -- right -- that we are not 14 interested in creating a pool of employees and 15 giving up our right to bargain when we make 16 decisions about the Match and, you know, they are 17 just -- we give up that right to bargain. Right. 18 So we are not interested in that. That is what we 19 mean by creating a grandfathered employee because 20 that is what you are asking us when we are 21 grandfathering. 22 MR. FREDRIKSEN: But the only reasons 23 why the Company would ever want to suspend the 24 Savings Plan Match are cost savings. It is 25 certainly not for any other reason. The bargaining Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 45 1 unit consists of about 200 people. You have already 2 said that you saved the amount of money that you on 3 the bargaining unit by suspending their Match was 4 $1.7 million a year. 5 Every year that goes by, if you agree 6 to this proposal, will be fewer and fewer as people 7 retire and they naturally leave as people get 8 proposed, where there will be fewer and fewer number 9 of people that this would apply to. So this as a 10 fuse on it. This is not a proposal in -- in 11 perpetuity. This is not a proposal forever, right, 12 because as those people leave -- 13 MS. McCLAIN: That is what I -- 14 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The Company's 15 obligation also will -- 16 MS. McCLAIN: -- forever for those 17 people. 18 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right. I mean, we 19 have people who have worked 40 years. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I wish I could say 21 that that was something that was going to continue 22 moving forward, but when the Company is using their 23 benefits as like a -- basically you have kind of 24 tainted the idea of a Savings Plan being a benefit 25 moving forward for a lot of people because it used Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 46 1 to be something that could look forward to and 2 always rely on. So now that is gone. So the 3 feeling of -- 4 MS. McCLAIN: I don't agree. The 5 Savings Plan is still there. The Match is what has 6 been suspended. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Right. 8 MS. McCLAIN: And it is not that it has 9 stopped. The Match is suspended right now. The 10 Savings Plan is still there. 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The Match, I am 12 talking about the Match. That is what I am talking 13 about, just to be clear. 14 MS. McCLAIN: Well, you said the 15 Savings Plan. So I just wanted to clarify that. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I am talking about the 17 Match. 18 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 19 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So I think it was a 20 mistake on the part of the Company to touch the 21 Savings Plan Match, but that is neither here nor 22 there, because this is purely my opinion. But it is 23 also my opinion that if you preserve the Match for 24 these individuals, at least you will have people 25 that know -- now they have investment -- now they Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 47 1 have a stake, now, they should stay because their 2 Savings Plan Match is protected and that is going to 3 be something that they can look forward to for the 4 rest of their career. 5 So like, the Company says that it needs 6 to have long-term strategies, but everything that I 7 hear from you is that you want to make it harder and 8 harder to justify being a long-term employee. I 9 want -- I personally think it is my job to try to 10 help you fix that because I want to see this Company 11 succeed. I want to see people -- I want this to 12 come back to a position where people can say, "I 13 want to be an ExxonMobil employee for the rest of my 14 career. I don't want to go anywhere else. I don't 15 want to job hunt. I don't want to look for better 16 benefits because I know I have the best." 17 And that is kind of what this is about, 18 is setting that, at least in place for these 19 individuals, is like I want these people to stay. 20 So to say that this effects the Company's 21 flexibility in terms of cost savings, when we know 22 that the cost is very low compared to the amounts of 23 money that the Company needs to save. 24 But you are not considering the fact 25 that the site that we work at does really important Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 48 1 work for the future of the corporation and you need 2 to have people that are here that are invested in 3 the work. They need to have -- in order for those 4 people to have a long-term vision, they need to be 5 here for a long time. This is a proposal that 6 protects that idea. And I really strongly urge you 7 to reconsider it. Not from a cost savings 8 perspective, but from what you are gaining with this 9 proposal, which is something that makes people feel 10 that they are more invested moving forward. 11 So we are not withdrawing it. I am 12 asking you to reconsider it. That was the 13 justification. 14 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 15 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Moving on. 16 We will move onto wages. So the 17 Company said that they removed retroactivity because 18 it is not their style to have retroactivity in the 19 contract. What do you mean by, like, the statements 20 that you made about how it is not in the Company's 21 interest to have retroactivity when you proposed 22 retroactivity. Explain that to me. Reconcile that. 23 MS. McCLAIN: What I said was, 24 retroactivity for as long as we have. I mean, we 25 have proposed retroactivity. We have had it on the Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 49 1 table. What we said was, we want to look at the 2 current environment. We took a look at that. We 3 want to reflect the current go-forward nature of the 4 contract. So, you know, that is what we are looking 5 at. That is what we are interested in and that is 6 why, you know, it was on the table from June to 7 April of this year. And we had an opportunity at 8 that time and we were satisfied with leave it at 9 that time, but now we are looking at moving forward. 10 So that -- 11 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Do you think that 12 helps you get a deal? Do you think that helps you 13 get us closer to a deal? 14 MS. McCLAIN: I think this is what is 15 necessary right now, given where we are, and that is 16 why we made the proposal. 17 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Why is it necessary? 18 MS. McCLAIN: Like I said, we took a 19 look at the offer and, you know, made a decision 20 that we needed to remove retroactivity. 21 MR. FREDRIKSEN: What were the things 22 you considered that made you want to do that? You 23 are saying you made a decision. You just played 24 Tic-Tac-Toe and the winner got to decide? Like, 25 what did you do? Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 50 1 MS. McCLAIN: Again, you know, we look 2 at where we are and we talked about it before. We 3 look at the proposals. We look at the business 4 environment. We look at whether or not, you know, 5 this is necessary for us, and we determined that it 6 wasn't. 7 MR. FREDRIKSEN: The business 8 environment is decidedly better than it was in June. 9 So you did this after the pandemic was almost over. 10 MS. McCLAIN: It is our business and 11 our interest to pay for work, and these -- on a 12 go-forward basis with these increases, right. We 13 paid for the work at the time through, you know, 14 June to April at the rates, you know, that we agreed 15 to. Again, you know, we haven't reached an 16 agreement in our view and, you know, our interest is 17 for a forward-looking agreement, and that is one of 18 the things that we took a look and, you know, made a 19 change. 20 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So you get to decide 21 the pay and no one else, and whatever you decide is 22 what it is? 23 MS. McCLAIN: No. We provide an offer. 24 You can choose to accept. The retroactivity is in 25 the offer from June. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 51 1 MR. FREDRIKSEN: That is what I said. 2 MS. McCLAIN: But you chose not to 3 accept it. 4 MR. FREDRIKSEN: You decide what the 5 wages are going to be and no one else, that is what 6 you said. 7 MS. McCLAIN: And I said, we proposed 8 wages. You can choose to accept or negotiate with 9 us on those wages. For retroactivity, we have 10 proposed. We had proposed retroactivity from June 11 to April. At that point, you chose not to accept, 12 and now you are negotiating for this to continue. 13 However, we are proposing that it will not continue 14 because we have an interest for a go-forward 15 agreement. 16 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So my number one 17 interest throughout all this has always been to try 18 to get us closer to a deal. You can ask anybody on 19 this team. That has always been my number one 20 interest. What I am hearing from you is that is not 21 even on your radar, that you need to look at the 22 business environment, you need to look at where 23 ExxonMobil is, and you need to decide what you want 24 to pay. So this is all about you. This is not 25 about us. That is what I am hearing from you. Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 52 1 MS. McCLAIN: We have to come to an 2 agreement that is mutually acceptable to both 3 parties. That is the goal. It doesn't mean just 4 getting an agreement for an agreement sake that is 5 one-sided. 6 MR. FREDRIKSEN: So how does reducing 7 your wage offer get us closer to an agreement? 8 MS. McCLAIN: In our view, you know, 9 this is, again, our preference, like I keep saying 10 for a go-forward agreement, whether or not you, you 11 know, will choose to accept it, that is up to you. 12 This is -- we put an offer on the table, right, when 13 we look at the totality of the agreement, and 14 getting closer to an agreement doesn't mean that we 15 need to forego looking and getting a balanced 16 contract that we can mutually agree on. Right? 17 It doesn't mean that we throw 18 everything on -- you know, out of our bank accounts 19 on it in hopes of just getting an agreement. We are 20 looking for an agreement that settles our issues, 21 that addresses the Company's needs. That hasn't 22 happened. We are looking forward, right, and so -- 23 and this is what we thought is necessary. 24 MR. FREDRIKSEN: I hear you. I hear 25 what you are saying, JeffeLee, and what I am hearing Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 53 1 is not making feel like this is a particularly 2 collaborative process, but that is your decision, I 3 suppose. 4 If nobody else has any questions or if 5 you guys have questions for us, I think we should 6 probably caucus. 7 MS. McCLAIN: Okay. 8 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Steve? 9 MR. RAGOMO: Yes. 10 MR. FREDRIKSEN: Anyone else? Tom? 11 All right. Let's caucus. 12 (Remote negotiations recessed at 3:31 13 p.m. and adjourned at 4:00 p.m.) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195 54 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 I, RITA GARDNER, Notary Public of the 4 State of New Jersey and a Certified Court Reporter, 5 do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and 6 accurate transcript of the remote testimony as taken 7 stenographically by and before me at the time and on 8 the date hereinbefore set forth. 9 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a 10 relative nor employee nor attorney nor counsel of any 11 of the parties to this action, and that I am neither 12 a relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, 13 and that I am not financially interested in the 14 action. 15 16 17 Notary Public of the State of New Jersey 18 19 Dated: June 14, 2021 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rita Gardner ~ Court Reporter ~ (908) 319-1195